did I miss a memo?

[lagilman]

So, it being December, I am making my plans for 2010 conventions (Pcon in Dublin, daytripping Lunacon, Balticon, pending DragonCon, all others uncertain at this point*) and I come to a sticking point.

WFC apparently is refusing to do any on-line registration. You have to download a pdf form, fill it out, write them a check/credit card #, and send it via USPS.

Guys, I know WFC marches to the beat of its own bagpipe, but WTF? It's 2010. Most of us do things on-line whenever possible -- yes, really. We enter in the credit card and we hit "send" and we don't print out fiddly bits of paper and mail them and then wait to hear if it's been received or not.

Or am I missing some great backlash against on-line commerce?


There are also no hotel rates listed. Hopefully that will be remedied in the next few months, so I can deal with Budget Issues...




*I'm not doing Readercon because I'll be teaching @ Odyssey the week prior and fully expect to be exhausted. WorldCon is yet to be decided -- have to see a) how the finances work, and b) if I can really afford to take the time off, when I'll then have to turn around and head to France for two weeks the next month. The cats would kill me. Although I am willing to hear arguments....

Comments

[karistan.livejournal.com]

We're also trying to figure out the 2010 cons schedule so I feel your pain. It's going to be an interesting year! :)

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Yeah, con scheduling is being contemplated here.

However, horse trainer threw something new into the mix. He's going out to some shows...which means I now have to think about horse show schedules as well as con schedules...and I won't know show schedules until March.

He thinks we can kick butt, so it's pretty tempting to take My Girl out to show what she can do. We've done an awful lot of work at home, maybe it's time to strut our stuff. And work the Day Jobbe. And keep on writing...ah well.

[icedrake.livejournal.com]

Wha huh? That's a whole new twist for WFC. Is it my imagination or is the WFC more subject to Concom-induced changes and fluctuations than any other con?

[icedrake.livejournal.com]

Also, you should consider NASFIC for this year. Much more budget-friendly than Down Under.
*nodnod*

[lagilman]

More budget-friendly, yes, but... Australia! Vineyards! Dropbears!

(although I suspect this falls under the same rule I had for Japan -- if I'm going, I don't want to spend 2-4 days cooped up in a convention center. The advantage of the job is that ALL trips are research trips, so I don't have to hang it off a convention. And yet.... it would be really cool, and I do have a handful or so of Australian readers....)

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

If I hit any of the major cons this year, myself, NASFiC will be it for me, partly because it will be less expensive than Australia (though Jack really wants me to go) and because i have family in Raleigh. It wold be lovely to see you, I must admit--but I totally understand preferring Australia to the Carolinas.

[feuervogel]

What goes on at a NASFiC? I'm Raleigh-ish local, and I'm intrigued by a con I wouldn't have to drive 6 hours to get to. (Also, the new RCC is pretty swank, and in easy walking distance of a variety of pubs, including the Flying Saucer.)

[Here via a link in a comment to Jim Hines' post.]

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

NASFiC is the North American Science Fiction Convention--basically it's intended to be a WorldCon for those in the US who can't go to WorldCon. Its flavor and content are generally determined by the concom who won the bid, so the quality of such conventions varies wildly depending upon who's running it. How's the Raleigh-area SMOF community? Do they run good shows? You may be better able to answer this question than I am.

[feuervogel]

I'm not In with the Cool Crowd, so I couldn't say. My experience of cons is Dragon*Con and Animazement and YaoiCon. Very fannish, and from what I can gather, very Not What WorldCon Is About.

What I don't know is whether someone who's a fan (and not a BNF or a SMOF or a published writer or etc etc) would find anything to do. Is it all about networking? Seeing folks you haven't seen since last con? The website only has guests up now, and no programming (though I don't expect /that/ until July at the earliest).

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

Usually there are several tracks of panel programming (writing, media, science, mythology, SF & fantasy lit, costuming, filk, culture, etc.), readings, costuming, a movie and media track, a masquerade, parties, gaming--WorldCon attempts (better than most regional cons) to be all things to all people. Programming goes late into the night, parties are thrown by all sorts of people, clubs, and groups. Sometimes there's a dance. It's very fannish.

WorldCons are typically much more fannish than World Fantasy, though I haven't been to WFC is years and it may have changed from what I remember.

[feuervogel]

Oh, I see! I was remembering the discussions surrounding costuming at WFC (frowned upon) this year, and thinking WorldCon was similar. Hmm. I may have to prod friends into going, though most of my local friends will be saving up for D*C. (As will I, actually.)

Thanks so much :)

[anisosynchronic.livejournal.com]

World Fantasy Conventions and Worldcons are very difference animals. The former has a membership cap, a limited program in the sense of it being deliberately kept to something like a maximum of two track simultaneously panels and two readings at a time, an juried/invitation only-by-juring art show, no masquerade, hall costumes frowned on, very high percentage of writers/editors/agents/artist/publishers.... Worldcons are 20 rings circuses, with around ten percent of the members of the convention on the program, as many or twelve or more panel discussion items going on at the same time, typically two tracks at least going on of film/video/anime playing and a track of promos for forthcoming features in TV/video/anime/film, a track of concert sets of music, two or three rooms given over at night for music-making with some being "themed circles" and others "open filk" with the music running for as long as people stay in rooms, two or three tracks of author readings, "big tent" events of the Hugo Ceremonies where the Hugos get given out and the Masquerade--the ur-presentation costume competition--with other big tent events tending to include such things as one or more dances, soemtimes a "meet the program participants" event with refreshments and/or a meet the Guests of Honor event, Opening Ceremonies, Closing Ceremonies, other large "extravangza" event(s) if any... Once upon a time there were Hugo banquets and speeches, including the Guest of Honor Speeches, in conjunction with the banquet. That tradition ended long ago as a tradition, though occasionally a Worldcon will have a large food function, very occasionally even a banquet.

What else--Worldcons have hall costumes competitions with ribbons handed out for exception hall costumes. Worldcons have awards ceremonies other than the Hugo such as the Chesleys for SF/F artwork usually being given out at ceremonies held at the Worldcon by ASFA, the Assocation of Science Fiction Artists. Other awards which usually get given out at the Worldcon include the Sidewise Award, and others which I am blanking on.

There are meetings of special interest groups, lots of them--SFWA usually has a business meeting of its members at the Worldcon. ASFA holds a meeting (see Chesleys above...). Subfandoms for e.g. George RR Martin's A Game of Thrones universe often rent suites or rooms and throw parties, some open, some limited to the subfandom--Worldcons have a traveling party board constructed by "Filthy Pierre" years back to list the open parties on, for people to go buy and write down--they also get listed in the daily newletter... there is a newsletter, which may even have multiple issues on the same day on some days.

There are tracks of programming aimed at children. There is art and music programming--program items which are hands-on workshops, programs items which are how-to demos (when he was Artist GoH, Bob Eggleton ws "artist in the fishbowl" painting a complete oil painting in several hours), program items which are people explaining how they create/created books or artwork. There are discussion groups and kaffeeclatsches, the latter being e.g. a writer and ten or so people signed up in advance to sit around a table for an hour and converse.

There is the consuite, open to everyone at the convention to come and partake of the hospitality.

There is an army of volunteers, I worked on Registration at last this past year's Worldcon next to people from the USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia, and one year a significant fraction of the artshow setup volunteers were from Japan, with someone doing live translation from English into Japanese relaying setup instructions...

[feuervogel]

It's a lot more like D*C than I expected! I just wonder how the NASFiC will compare...

[lagilman]

Like, but smaller, and more specific in its direction (no actors, no bands, even the media stuff tends to have a focus on the written word far more than D*C, which is more visual...)

On the other hand, if you have a hankering to hang with writer-folk, they're very easy to spot-and-catch. :-)

[feuervogel]

I tend to loiter in the SFLIT track at D*C, since books are my fandom & I'm not into most TV shows. (I like anime, too, but that fandom is so. freaking. young. I can't relate.) Or I'm doing the costume-gawk thing :D So more book stuff would be happy-making.

The lure of writer-folk is compelling...

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

I've been giving WFC some serious thought -since it's right up the road from home- but this might put a serious crimp in whether I'll be going or not. I'm the sort that I won't make up my mind on something like this until the last minute, and relying upon the USPS isn't what I had in mind.

[mcurry.livejournal.com]

Word is that Larry (yes, Larry the bookseller Larry), who is apparently the WFC 2010 chair, declared that only "coastal elites" wanted online registration, and other people were trying to convince him that this was a pretty stupid attitude considering that most of publishing is based on the coasts. Making the online registration matter more complex is his not liking Paypay and also being unable or unwilling to use his bookselling credit card processing setup to deal with online payments.

At this point, I'm also concerned by the fact that the web page hasn't been updated since May 16th and no hotel rates (as you mentioned), no GoHs and no details on the con committee. This does not bode well.

Since I was planning on attending this year, I wish they'd get their damned act together.

[lagilman]

Oh, brilliant. I'd hoped it was all just a late start convention chaos thing.

If they don't think "coastal elites" bring anything to the WFC party, then why should we bother going? It's a choice not an obligation to attend, after all, and if they're going to make it intentionally difficult to sign up... I can only imagine what the overseas (potential) membership feels about being given all those restrictions...

*facepalm*

[mcurry.livejournal.com]

The problem here would be taking something that was probably said in an offhand manner by one member of the con committee and making it the opinion of everyone working on the convention.

Since 90% of a successful WFC seems to usually involve just having a nice hotel with a big enough bar, I think boycotting WFC just because of the reported attitude of one member of the committee would be a bit....excessive. Especially since there are probably going to be fine people attending from the Midwest who don't deserve a lesser WFC just because of a con chair they didn't have any hand in choosing.

[lagilman]

?? I never suggested a boycott, just wondering why they're making it so damn difficult/unfriendly as per your reporting of the comment made by the Chair of said conference, and specifically the restrictions it puts on the overseas members.

[mcurry.livejournal.com]

This is the problem with having to pick a place in a comment thread to drop a general reply. *wry look* I didn't mean to suggest that you were in any way trying to organize a boycott, I just was starting to become concerned that a comment that I posted when I should have already been asleep was going to actually be a deciding factor for some people about whether or not they were going to WFC, especially since it was second- or third-hand.

[lagilman]

Ah. Je comprendes.

[kradical.livejournal.com]

Wowsers. "Coastal elites," eh? Well, that pretty much settles whether or not this particular New Yorker wants to go or not.... *rolleyes*

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

Wow. I had no idea that a Midwesterner from a conservative town was considered a coastal elite for wanting online registration.

And I thought some of the parents in my school district who were anti-computers in the classroom were behind the times.

Sheesh.

[mcurry.livejournal.com]

Oh, and to reference my source (such as it is), please see this post by Jason Sanford about a conversation that took place on the topic over on twitter (http://www.jasonsanford.com/jason/2009/11/world-fantasy-convention-2010.html).

[blitheringpooks.livejournal.com]

What isn't clear is whether the Larry in question actually labeled people people that way, or whether it was Jay Lake's spin. JL's tweet reads:

"Yes, I had quite the little chat with Larry about that. Apparently, it's just us decadent coastal elites who want online reg."

[lagilman]

Ahhh. Jay does tend to... be a bit on the aggressively offputting side when he's cranky.

Still, whatever their reasons, the fact that there is no on-line reg is still my main complaint. I think it's short-sighted and not in the best interests of WFC, to handicap people like that. What happens to the non-USAn would-be members who don't have a bank account or credit card tied to an American bank fund? They, by these standards, cannot register....

[blitheringpooks.livejournal.com]

But Jay might very well have been interpreting the attitude correctly, whether he embellished in writerly fashion or not. I don't pretend to know, and that is for certain.

However, you're absolutely correct. I can't imagine any reason at all why someone wouldn't have online registration. Unless someone buys into the idea that Texas is the third coast, I believe my Dallas residency gives me interiority status and I'm gobsmacked over the idea that online registration isn't available.

[mcurry.livejournal.com]

Actually, it was MKKare who posted that, as a reply to something Jay said. But yes, this part of things hinges entirely on MKKare's relaying a version of a conversation they had, and IMO if they actually get their act together after the holidays and put up online reg, whether or not the attitude exists doesn't matter. Especially since I kinda like being a decadent coastal elite.

[lagilman]

I think we need cabana servants who will wear "decadent coastal elite" buttons for us while they fix our drinks and answer our mail...

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

Sign me up!

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Well, being in one of the flyover states (OK), I too was vexed by the lack of on-line registration, lack of Paypal, and the fact that the price-change mailing deadline fell on a Sunday....a day on which noone could get a post mark. When I e-mailed the con to ask about the deadline/postmark situation, I never got a response.

I mailed in my form six weeks ago, and haven't yet gotten any form of response.

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

Considering Larry shits a brick every time someone wants to use a credit card in the dealers room, this is not surprising. Sigh.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

OK, you have answered my question in the other post about international flights.

AlbaCon, a $50 round-trip bus ride from the city, is Oct. 8-10. ;)

[lagilman]

I'm flying back from France on the 11th. :-)

[scbutler.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I made the no Paypal discovery when I tried to beat the $100 deadline last month. Note that I am still not signed up, though I can't imagine not attending.

I thought Luddites were self-selected out of SF.

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

...I thought Luddites were self-selected out of SF....

Haven't spent much time in SFWA circles, have you? (Am I bitter...?)

[chickwriter.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's just utterly counterproductive. Guess that made up my mind for me. I do everything online, hell, even a tiny Omaha conference I go to has online payment.

[shana.livejournal.com]

Is there going to be a Lunacon? As far as I can tell, they haven't updated the 2010 site since last spring.

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

There is, I got an email from the programming chair recently. Guess they're just behind....

[shana.livejournal.com]

If they don't update their website with registration and hotel info, it's going to be a pretty small con.

not to snark, but...

[lagilman]

Yeah, having attended WFC since 1991, am quite aware that WFC is run by a new crew every year -- but nobody involved in this concom is a newbie to conventions on either the fannish or pro side.

Their "general distrust of all things invisible" is coming hard up against the fact that it's 2010 and these things are not exactly breaking news or newfangled any more.... so I'm not sure how the 'learning curve' comes into play.

If they've committed to an on-line option, it's a pity it's taken until after the price break changed for even a rumor of it to surface. Even a note on the website saying it's in the works could have averted a lot of frustration and annoyance.

Re: not to snark, but...

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

Their "general distrust of all things invisible" is coming hard up against the fact that it's 2010 and these things are not exactly breaking news or newfangled any more.... so I'm not sure how the 'learning curve' comes into play.

They're almost twenty years behind the times, as I used to purchase items from Lands End off of GEnie back in 1991-92.

It's one thing to not adopt the latest gadget, but another to not provide an option that's been in use for almost a generation.

[pbray.livejournal.com]

Sigh. I've been looking forward to WFC because the dates don't conflict with the day job (unlike the past two years) and there's the added bonus that it's within driving distance.

Hopefully the ConCom will get the problems straightened out. I'm willing to cut them some slack, but if it starts getting into 2010 without any updates to website, then I'll be concerned.