I'm a live-and-let-live woman, but sometimes....

[lagilman]

EtA: from: @cnnbrk Kansas jury finds Scott Roeder guilty of killing of abortion doctor. http://bit.ly/catNSa

"Scott Roeder’s lawyers want jurors to consider his opposition to abortion as a valid motive for shooting George R. Tiller."

*stares*

Seriously: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29roeder.html

If this is considered an acceptable defense for shooting an unarmed man -- in a house of worship, no less, in front of his family, then I move that "s/he needed killing" be returned to common usage, along with "too stupid to live." And I'm buying a gun.

Comments

[ebonypearl.livejournal.com]

Ayup, he wants his "pro-life" position to be his defense for depriving someone of their life. Methinks if one were truly "pro-life", they wouldn't even consider killing anyone. After all, we were all once embryos.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

He has apparently said in court, with no stitch of self-awareness or irony, that "It's not right to kill people." Except, of course, if previous attempts to murder someone you don't like have failed, as have all legal challenges to the doctor's practice.

As for the "house of worship" part - you are aware that there is a large contingent of people who claim that it wasn't "really" a church, based on the fact that it accepted Dr. Tiller and his family? I've seen articles about someone whining that he just went there to preach the Bible, and if it was a real church, it would have been happy to let him come in off the street and witness instead of the minister having his ass thrown out.

[lagilman]

I hate people.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

There are some good ones. And there are folks on the other side of this (types the person who's going to be back in orange in the snow; they were shorthanded, so I don't get a weekend off.)

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

It won't work.

Thankfully.

[jperceval.livejournal.com]

It's Kansas. It might work.

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

Let me put an addendum on:

If won't work if the prosecutors are doing their job.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

His defense lawyers need to go the fuck back to law school.

I wonder if this is a de facto guilty plea. Even if he's using it to plead not guilty.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

The problem is, while the judge will not use it as a defense, he may -- after all is said and done -- decide to allow the jury to consider a manslaughter conviction.

[lagilman]

yeah, that's the concern.

We can hope that the 'defense' will annoy everyone enough that they render an extreme verdict, rather than a weaker one.

[(Anonymous)]

Judge Wilbert has now, after hearing Roeder's testimony, ruled that Roeder CANNOT present the defense to the jury, and that manslaughter and second-degree murder are off the table because "no reasonable jury" could have found anything BUT a longstanding premeditation from Roeder's testimony. (See
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/83274.html
for a dumbed-down summary that misses the main procedural point.)

In this instance, it looks like Judge Wilbert had a hidden agenda, however procedurally misguided: He gave Roeder enough rope to hang himself. He still gave the maroon a platform to turn it into a show trial... just like many object will happen if we actually give GITMO detainees trials under civilian rules. My irony meter is pretty well pegged.

-- Jaws

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

If he gets off on manslaughter for claiming that he killed a man "to prevent other people from being killed," then it's pretty much open season on HIM, too, isn't it?

Gotta love the logic.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

You'll have a hard time buying that gun in New York . . .

But we do an export trade in Maine.

[terri-osborne.livejournal.com]

If that argument holds any water with the judge? I'm going to start a betting pool on who the first person to kill Roeder when he's free are going to be, and whether or not they'll use the "needed killing" argument in their defense.

There are times I want the "stupid people shouldn't breed" shirt. This would be one of those times.

[blitheringpooks.livejournal.com]

Oh fuck no.

The attorney has given up, right? And is now allowing the bastard to call the shots, just in case the jury has somebody on it that will agree with him?

[fakefrenchie.livejournal.com]

Does he even have an attorney? I thought I read somewhere that he was defending himself?

[bigferret.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

People in general suck.

[roseaponi.livejournal.com]

Well, you can't blame the lawyers so much... they're paid to sling BS and see if it sticks. I'm sure they don't believe half the stuff they have to say in order to do the job for their clients.

I despise murderers who tack "moral" arguments onto their motives - it's doubly worse than murder alone because it tends to paint everbody who really does believe that "X is wrong" as trigger-happy lunatics. The obvious fact is that he's a murderer, he intended to murder, he was not provoked or defending himself or anyone else, and he stalked the doctor and shot him in cold blood. He's a psychopath who thought he could get away with killing someone just because that person had a controversial profession. It's amazing there are lawyers who will even touch this.

I don't like abortion, but Dr. Tiller did not deserve to die. You don't kill people to solve social problems, and it's ridiculous to imagine that this is supposed to a defense. This is the arrogance of a pyschopath spewing his warped worldview as soon as he has an audience.

I also despise churches that are more caught up in maintaining the exclusivity of their little saints' clubs than in serving and saving people who need help. This is not the way to win people over or even to coexist with a secular world. It's not even a good plan for long-term survival - churches die once they turn into havens for hypocrites. So, there's no reason to suppose that Dr. Tiller's church wasn't really a church, and every reason to think that the snipers who are saying that are hypocrites themselves. So that's my 2 cents on the religious aspect.

Something about these two phenomena seems related somehow. Inability to see hypocrisy in self? Playing God to decide who is worthy of living? Just plain evil and perversity?

Hmmm... doing a lot of despising today. I need to calm down or I'll never get any sleep tonight.

[saladinahmed.livejournal.com]

FWIW, the jerkbag got life in prison for 1st degree murder. Took the jury a half-hour:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/us/30roeder.html?hp

What I want to know is: Why isn't someone like this charged with terrorism as well? If The Scurry Moozlim Funduhmentalists get extra charges piled on top of murder or whatnot b/c they are trying to terrorize/make a political point, why not this scumbucket?

[lagilman]

first, we have to stop calling them "activists" and start calling them "terrorists." And then we have to get the MEDIA to start doing the same.

(and yeah, I updated my post when the news came in)

[roseaponi.livejournal.com]

I agree - murder has definitely crossed the line from activism and into terrorism. Terrorists should be separated from peaceful activists in the public mind - maybe then it'll be easier to have intelligent discussions between opposing groups.

[house-draven.livejournal.com]

One of the beauties of Arizona is that "he needed killin'" is a valid defense still -- but so far it seems to work only if you're a wife-beater caught sexually abusing your young daughter and stuff like that. (The aforesaid wife who walked in on her husband trying to have sex with their under-10 age daughter was found not guilty, despite admitting to the crime.)

[roseaponi.livejournal.com]

I'd consider her action to be in defense of her daughter, then. (I'm conflicted about this - in theory, murder is wrong - but I can't help but agree that he needed killing, too.)

[house-draven.livejournal.com]

Oh,this guy needed killin'. He'd been physically and sexually abusing his wife for years, and evidently had abused their older daughter when she was younger, etc...

Some people are Just No Damned Good.