WTF?

[lagilman]

I was just taken to task in another LJ for daring to report news of a dissenting view in a current popular scandal.

This is, apparently, cause for hissing and dissing.

I will, yes, gather the evidence before rushing to judgement. And if there are contradictory reports, I will weigh them evenly based on my knowledge of the sources. I -- foolishly, clearly -- thought that others might also wish to know that there were dissenting eyewitness reports at that time.

Somehow, according to this person, that has become "choosing sides."

And I say again -- WTF?

Comments

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

I think they fail to grasp the concept of "choosing sides". It tends to involve only letting one side be reported, without its possible criticisms.

But, yes, I have seen that as an LJ trend recently, in politics, and in fandoms. Don't disagree, or you're a flamebait troll. Weird.

[ianrandalstrock.livejournal.com]

No, you may be misunderstanding . "Choosing sides," apparently, has come to mean "choosing the other side." Just as a fair and balanced report is only fair and balanced if it's biased toward your (not you specifically, but the viewer in question) views. If it's even-handed, it's obviously biased toward the other side.

That's one of the reasons I find it increasingly difficult to discuss politics with many of my friends and acquaintances. Anyway, you were right; your correspondent was wrong. Smile, and keep pissing off the closed-minded.

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

What I was going to say, only said better.

[burger-eater.livejournal.com]

People are dumb.

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

Sorry to hear that, but would like the link so I can see what you said, which I have no doubt was entirely reasonable, and what the other person said to you in return.

Thanks --

[lagilman]

http://matociquala.livejournal.com/881156.html?thread=13660420

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

I agree with Ian. What you said *was* perfectly reasonable, and well-stated. Unfortunately, I think that Harlan's behaviour over the years makes it very tempting to just get upset ovver stuff he does, or to have the reaction that he's like the undle the whole family wants to keep locked away from polite society. But you know, it wasn't all that long ago that much of fandom would have totally condoned what he did, either.

Clearly, from everything that has been said since, Connie handled the situation in the matter she deemed proper. And equally clearly, by her "belling the cat reamrk," she was putting it into its proper perspective.

I don't think you were choosing sides. And I thank you for being the voice calling out for fairness. It was a very clearly needed voice.

[greeneyedkzin.livejournal.com]

What Deb said. I'm personally very fond of Harlan, but that doesn't mean I approve of some of the things he does.

Fair's fair. Connie strikes me as someone who is -quite- able to deal with him. If she's handled the situation to her satisfaction, I'm not at all surprised.

[ianrandalstrock.livejournal.com]

Obviously, I still haven't figured out this livejournal thing, as I followed the link, but couldn't find your original comment no how. Bummer.

[ianrandalstrock.livejournal.com]

Oops. Never mind. Took some digging, but since it's a slow day, I found it.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Harlan has acknowledged that he did it, said that it was indefensible, and apologized.

http://nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com/821226.html

[lagilman]

For Harlan's version of an apology, yeah. I wasn't impressed.

And it doesn't negate the original point of this thread -- into the furor I brought up the eyewitness report of someone sitting in the first few rows, who was watching it happen, who knew both the players in this scene, and came away with a much less incindiary version of the events. Blnced reporting. If we rant about Fox News not doing it, how can we not hold ourselves up to the same standard?

[highway-west.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have to agree with you that it was a lame apology.

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

And I have to agree with you that if we complain about other agencies not using balanced reporting, we have to hold ourselves to the same standard (or at least aspire to it).

[merlinpole.livejournal.com]

Connie Willis refrained from reacting at the Hugos with outrage, she indicated later in the convention, at the bar, that she felt obligatons to the Hugo Ceremonies and to the audience that outweighed her outrage and desire to react based on it, during the proceedings. Harlan on stage acted rudely, lewdly, crudely, and with no couth; Connnie Willis responded with graciousness and apparent equanimity, even though she was seething and upset.

[logrusboy.livejournal.com]

Clearly, next time you want to think for yourself, you should apply for a permit...

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Eh? I've encountered people on the internet who could have manufactured the story out of thin air. Hell, _I_ manufacture such stories, and even sell one now and then.

Reserving judgment shows wisdom. Now that Harlan has pled guilty, we can proceed to the hanging.

[lagilman]

Now that Harlan has pled guilty, we can proceed to the hanging.

On that, many of us can agree. Although I think the best punishment of all would be to stop talking about him. The chatter's what feeds him, after all.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

>The chatter's what feeds him, after all.

Yep. This just broadcasts his chosen image. He has nurtured "Harlan the Terrible" for decades, planting and watering and fertilizing it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yep. This just broadcasts his chosen image. He has nurtured "Harlan the Terrible" for decades, planting and watering and fertilizing it.

Emphasis on the fertilizer. Connie's after-the-fact comment was "Harlan's a little shit, but we knew that."
______
Dennis

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

Waste of a good rope, if you ask me.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

You can reuse the rope.

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

True, but would you really want to?

[lagilman]

we could offer it up at an EMF auction....


(thanks, the humor is helping restore my really-rather-trod-on sense of the absurd)

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

We could at that...

and yw.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Probably selling 1' lengths -- although demand might be high enough that even threads of the True Rope would have value.

[windrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, no kidding. I fail to see how being objective is a Bad Thing.

Oh, wait. Because that would make sense. My bad, sorry.

[lagilman]

I think it was more that I wasn't falling into line with the Outrage! that annoyed this person. Me, I'm outraged that anyone could take one side of a story as Gospel without even wondering about the other three sides...

[windrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I saw the original discussion. Didn't comment because, well, I wasn't there when it happened, don't know the people involved except by reputation, etc., and I don't like basing my opinions on second-hand recounting of events.

Which, if I'm not mistaken, was pretty much the point you were trying to make.

[baka-kit.livejournal.com]

*sings* The wank goes ever on and on,
Down from the con where it began ...

[nick-kaufmann.livejournal.com]

I can't really say I'm surprised. When it comes to internet outrage, there's often a my-way-or-the-highway attitude.

[dochyel.livejournal.com]

WTF indeed.

Y'know, I don't like it when people disagree with me. But I know enough to respect somebody else's opinions. I've been taken to task on various lists for exactly that sort of thing (regarding the war, for instance) and it just drives me crazy.

My sincere sympathies.

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

I love the smell of wank in the evening.

[delkytlar.livejournal.com]

There you go being reasonable, intelligent and objective again. When will you stop?

You've hit exactly my main problem with LJ and the Web in general. I've been planning a long post about this issue for a while now, and the Harlan incident has tipped me toward posting it. Everyone is so hot to jump on an issue and take sides without getting all the information. Despite my professional relationship with Harlan, if I'd been at WorldCon or the Hugos, I probably would have posted my views of the situation (depending on what I had actually seen or didn't see). However, I wasn't at WorldCon or the Hugos, so I tried to find as many first-hand accounts before making any judgments. This may have prevented me from posting the most visited and commented item ever on my LJ, but I also know I didn't jump in and say anything stupid in the heat of the moment.

Although I know you can get passionate about a topic, you do make the effort to get the facts before coming to a decision. Objectivity is a hard-won talent, and you've certainly mastered it.

[argillaceous-d.livejournal.com]

To risk double-posting someone else...

I will quote The SUe

"People.....are stupid"

I have gotten to the point that I will not participate in any discussion on the Internet, in ANY forum, unless I know all of the participants pretty well. Even then, you sometimes get burned.

However, when that happens, I can privately email them and ask "are ya HIGH?"

I think Chocolate is in order.

[jamesgilmer.livejournal.com]

Not that you know me from Adam, but the fact that someone actually took a second from the third hand outrage and asked that we at least rage over the facts of the case gave me hope that not everyone on the internerd is a raging lunatic.

At one point it wasn't even clear what actually happened, and all I saw was OUTRAGE! It was nice to see someone asking for confirmation before condemnation

None of which is meant as a comment on the Harlan situation, but I find the fact that people are crowing about smacking you down for playing devil's advocate on other LJ's to be sickening.

Thank you for asking for restraint and sanity until facts were in.

If nothing else, you've earned yourself a new reader the next time I'm at the book store ;)