trying to hit a deadline and reaching out for help...

[lagilman]

query: what was the first literary mention of a 'wizarding school' you ever remember reading about? Who wrote about it?

What other forms of "teaching magic" have you encountered in your readings?


UPDATE: Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Very useful. Y'all have done so much work, I almost hate to tell you that it's for a semi-throwaway line in promotional bit I'm doing for the Luna web site...

(what sort of promo piece? Well, you'll have to check out the web site when the material goes up, won't you? *evil grin*)

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure it was Diana Wynne Jones's Chrestomanci books. The "Witch Family" books by Eleanor Estes had witch schools earlier, but there were no boys. I loved the Estes books so much.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Sigh. The Estes rec was from me.

[nick-kaufmann.livejournal.com]

I feel like there might have been a wizard school in the Earthsea and/or Prydain books, but I can't quite recall.

[havocthecat]

There's a wizard school in Earthsea, yes--on the Isle of Gont, maybe? Gah, can't remember about the Prydain books, but I thought it was more a teacher/apprentice one-on-one gig?

[nick-kaufmann.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think you're right on both counts.

[jcberk.livejournal.com]

Earthsea's was on Roke (with the Roke-wind to keep away undesireables).

[havocthecat]

Ah. Was Gont where Ogion lived, then?

[jcberk.livejournal.com]

Yes indeed. Gont for Ged and Ogion, Roke for the mages, Havnor for the kings or lack thereof, Kargad for the pasty God-Kings and the catacombs of Atuan. For some reason the Earthsea names have stuck with me much better than names usually do (I vividly remember putting down Peter Dickenson's _The Blue Hawk_ and immediately thinking "wait a minute, what was the main character's name?"). It could just be a result of repeated readings, but I'd rather think it's because names matter deeply in the books.

[havocthecat]

Not really a formal wizarding school, per se, but I have very clear memories of "So You Want To Be A Wizard?" by Diane Duane. (And might I mention that now that there's a new age book with a similar title I'm very irked?) But wow, did that book capture my imagination.

And also "The Witches" by Roald Dahl, but iirc, there's not really a witch school in there, is that?

Hm. Most of the early stuff I read was a teacher/apprentice sort of gig, not a book with a school of witchcraft. The Belgariad series by David Eddings had Garion learning sorcery from Polgara and Belgarath. Um. God, normally I'd be a good source info, but my brain is fried.

[going-not-gone.livejournal.com]

I've a vague recollection of it in LeGuin's Earthsea books, but it has been a very long time since I read them.

[havocthecat]

I hope you don't mind, but I linked this post on my LJ to send people over. I didn't think to check before I did so--but if you want, I'll take the post down.

[sidhedevil.livejournal.com]

Which is why I found this post. =)

In any case, I think the first one I remember would be Miss Cackle's Academy for Witches from The Worst Witch movie made back in the early/mid-80's. I don't think there was one in the Prydain series; that was more of an individual apprenticeship.

There was also another School of Wizardry (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0816718261/sr=8-2/qid=1145456717/ref=sr_1_2/002-6826893-9621606?%5Fencoding=UTF8) book that came out a few years before the Harry potters, but that was sometime around 1990.

This is such an awesome question! I don't think I ever would've thought about it unless someone asked. =P

[havocthecat]

*waves* How's it going?

Ooh, how's that series? The Circle of Wizardry one you linked to, that is. I may have to hit the library for that.

Also, I remembered that the Melanie Rawn series--Sunrunner, or something like that--has a school of magic users too.

[lagilman]

Looking for somewhat older references, actually. Pre-1970's, by preference, pre-1950's, ideally.

And non-fiction's good too, I can use that... (I already have a reference to the druidic orders, and the eqyptian priest-class)

Re: Societas Magica

[lagilman]

Oh dear. *bookmarks site to "timesink" category and refrains from diving into it while on deadline...*

[sidhedevil.livejournal.com]

Try this book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0271025174/sr=1-1/qid=1145459634/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6826893-9621606?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books) for historical references of magical training.

The problem with historical examples, though, is that many of the civilizations that had deep roots in magic were also very oral traditions -- the best examples being the Irish, the various peoples in England, and the Norse. Our current translations of Ogham are still best guesses, and we've lost much of the historical fact through centuries of the telephone game and sociopolitical propoganda.

That being said, I think I've seen many more apprentice-style references than full schools. There are theories that the druids had entire village-schools set up for the education of their acolytes, but very little literal reference to back up the theory. The Egyptians had a more centralized training process, but that also changed as the dynasties changed. And once you get into the Later Middle Ages and the Renaissance, you're going to have to deal with a whole ton of Inquisitorial and other Christian propoganda as heretics were being pointed out left and right. There's a book called Self and Society in Medieval France: The Memoirs of Abbot Guibert of Nogent (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802065503/sr=1-6/qid=1145460263/ref=sr_1_6/002-6826893-9621606?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books) that discusses one monk's obervations of pagan and magical practices in medieval France...but you have to wade through page upon page of Freudian mom-worship to find them. It makes you wonder how much of it was factual and how much was just the ravings of a monk with an Oedipal complex. =P

It's a tough, tough subject if you're trying to find solid historical references. You're going to have to look between the missing historical accounts and the mire of spurious and colorful "witness" accounts to find anything really useful.

Good luck, though. This sounds like a really interesting project!

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Definitely Eleanor Estes, then; the little girl goes to witch school.

[meeshy.livejournal.com]

Sent here by Havoc too, and mines the same as the above - The Worst Witch books were probably the first recollection I have :)

[arouraleona.livejournal.com]

If I can remember correctly (its been several years) Faustus had a scholorly set up that taught alchemy... there is a lot of talk of alchemy teaching in old english lit, but I don't know how much of it is school based, or as stated before teacher/student...

Maybe something mentioned in The Tain... I'll have to look it up

Re: Alchemy

[arouraleona.livejournal.com]

sorry slipped, The Tain is considered on the line of old and middle, but yes alchemy is middle, that's very true.

And I totally buy that Faustus doesn't work... but I swear I remember something about a school for alchemy from something... ::think::

[ilvack.livejournal.com]

I'm from a slightly younger generation, and I started reading fantasy at a later age, so my experience is slightly limited. I'd have to say the first would have been in the book "Assassian's Aprentice" by Robin Hobb. It's the first book in the Farseer trilogy, and talks about a boy growing up to be an assassian (Well, with a title like that, he couldn't be a baker!) In it, he finds out he has the ability to use a magic known as the "Skill." Throughout the first book you get a fairly good idea of what he had to go through in order to learn the magic. The teaching basically consisted of grueling exercises to make your mind want to leave your body, and join into the magic of the Skill.

The other two that I'm thinking of is from "The Diamond Throne" by David Eddings and in the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Eddings didn't go much into the teaching of magic so much, but did have a few quick "classes" in the earlier parts of his series. His magic was more of a traditional way of casting: Speak the spell + move your hands = Magic. Not much to go on from there.

Robert Jordan, on the other hand, has an two entire schools dedicated to the male and female halves of the One Power. The teachings there ranged from basic class work to forcing the students to do nearly everything with the power in order to be able to use it quickly.

And Terry Goodkind's "The Sword of Truth" series is almost nothing but teaching one man to learn how to use magic (and save the world, but that's not so important here) by learning a handful of the "Wizard Rules" and reading ALOT.

[thanatos-kalos.livejournal.com]

Hi, here from havocthecat's lj:

Orson Scott Card's Songmaster teaches a pseudo-magical musical skill. Also, if you're looking outside fiction, Julius Caesar talks about the training of Druids in book 6 of his Gallic Wars. There's also Pythagorean pseudo-mystical teachings, Sufi mysticism, Etruscan magic from Roman sources, mystery cults...

No idea if that actually helps, but...there it is. :P

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Second vote for Diane Duane's So You Want to be a Wizard series as my first. There's also a sort of wizard academy mentioned in John Bellairs' books, starting with House With a Clock in the Walls although it's the adults talking in past tense about having attended; it is a college, not a high school.

Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series had an old mage teaching a young one. Terry Pratchett's Discworld has a Wizard college - the Unseen University - and informal witch teaching for girls; his new YA series about Tiffany Aching goes into the specifics of how that works, starting with Wee Free Men.

One assumes Hogwarts goes without saying in this situation, although it is doubtless the "first" that many young readers will remember.

[zinelady.livejournal.com]

The first I recall of reading about 'teaching magic' was Merlin teaching Wort in The Once and Future King by T H White when I was a child in the 60s. And if you don't count the Jedi Academy teaching the Force magic, then I guess the actual 'wizarding school' would be Hogwarts in Harry Potter by Rowling.

[kokyu.livejournal.com]

Yes, Earthsea has a school of wizardry. I imagine there are earlier references but I can't think of any.

I am especially fond of the education of young Merlin in "The Crystal Cave" by Mary Stewart.

[hecateshound.livejournal.com]

Mists of Avalon involves a sort of Magical Acadamy, where the priestesses go off to Avalon to learn magic. That was published in the early 80s.

It's a little more sfnal, but there's always Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters, est. 1964

Also sfnal, but maybe the vibe you want, is the Darkover books, also by MZB, involving the teaching of the leronis in the Towers. Various books, sixties through the eightes/nineties.

T.H. White's THE SWORD IN THE STONE is pretty classic in the "teaching magic" genre: a cranky mentor with one pupil.

And - oh, god - something by Alan Garner comes to mind, but my brain won't give up the reference this morning.

[djonn]

Without looking at others' comments, first:

[pause, think]

Huh, that's interesting; the examples that pop into my head are not running in the direction I'd expected, and most are more recent than I'd anticipated. Six come to mind:

# the Circle of Magic sextet (Doyle & Macdonald)
# the "Camber"-era Deryni novels (Katherine Kurtz)
# the Arrows of the Queen trilogy (Mercedes Lackey)
# the Circle of Magic quartet (Tamora Pierce)
# the Wren novels (Sherwood Smith)
# A Scholar of Magics (Caroline Stevermer)

As to other modes of teaching magic, almost all the other examples that come to mind are strongly rooted in an apprentice-oriented system, wherein a single magic-user takes on either a single pupil or (rarely) a handful of students. That model goes all the way back to Arthuriana, and includes works too numerous to cite.

The one cycle I can think of that departs significantly from both these models -- while retaining a strongly systemized scheme of magic -- is, interestingly, Diane Duane's "Young Wizards" sequence. In that universe, the study of wizardry is essentially self-selected, self-directed, and self-taught; every wizard has his or her own personal iteration of the Manual, goes through his or her own personal Ordeal (even in the rare cases where the Ordeal experience is shared, as happens occasionally in the series, the individual wizard must make certain basic choices alone.

[djonn]

And a further "huh"; I can see why you're having difficulties with source material. I got curious, and poked my nose into both the Searles/Meacham/Franklin Reader's Guide to Fantasy and the Clute/Nicholls Encyclopedia of Fantasy, and both are singularly un-enlightening on the question of stories about schools or academies of wizardry. That strikes me as significant, actually -- I am led to suspect that there are few if any older examples of wizard-schools in fantasy, because if there were I can't imagine both those two books missing the footprints. This is, of course, unprovable, but it ought to serve at least to document the obscurity of what you're looking for....

[merlinpole.livejournal.com]

Sherwood Smith and Debra Doyle are both on LiveJournal, FWIW.

I don't remember if there is any mention of wizards' school in Poul Anderon's The Broken Sword (Skafloc's a human stolen by a faery Duke and raised with the young elves and taught magic along with them; some of the descriptions in it of young Skafloc's transformations, are similar to ones of The Wart in The Sword in the Stone though The Broken Sword was published in 1954 I think it was. I don't remember which I read first) or Three Hearts and Three Lions.

Getting to the somewhat ridiculous, is there any mention in the Bible of how the Egyptian magicians whose staves-as-snakes were swallowed by Moses' staff-turned-snake were trained?

I don't remember if there was a mention of any wizard's school in The Last Unicorn, thought I read that latter than the White series, and Poul Anderson's books mentioned above.

Fantasy was a lot rarer than science fiction up through the 1980s--The Broken Sword was published in hardcover, and not until the early 1970s was there a reprint, in paperback, of it.

While there were a fair number of books aimed at children with magic in them, I don't remember most of the ones that were around in my childhood.
It's been way too long since I reread anything by James Branch Cabell to remember if there was anything regarding wizard schools in his work. While there

[girasole.livejournal.com]

The Riddlemaster of Hed and its sequels is the first I remember; I believe that is earlier than Earthsea but I could be wrong.

[phatgirly.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... there's a witch school of sorts mentioned in Kate Forsyth's Eileanan books. Besides that Hogwarts and Earthsea are what come to mind. If you stretch, there's also Jedi training.

[jennifer-dunne.livejournal.com]

Huh. I'm really surprised no one's mentioned the Mercedes Lackey books. I think the Last Herald-Mage series was my first intro to the idea of a fixed-location collegium where magic was taught as the primary subject, as opposed to learning magic while you learned some other skill. (late 80's)

The other one I remember is Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy (early 80's). Some of the magical disciplines were taught in the traditional apprenticeship style, but at least one (illusion, if I recall correctly) was taught in a school setting.

The Darkover books have already been mentioned.

Everything else I remember was at most a single mentor with a group of apprentices.

Pratchett

[ameliaamy.livejournal.com]

Terry Pratchett's books, e.g. The Color or Magic (http://www.lspace.org/books/reviews/the-colour-of-magic.html). The Unseen University (http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/4438/) in Ankh-Morpork.

No idea where that falls in the other commenters' chronology. Color of magic came out in '83.

[writerjob.livejournal.com]

You have LeGuinn and Dianna Wynn Jones. I'll add Joan Grant's 'Far Memory' series. That's old and pretty obscure.