living in denial

[lagilman]

So, the results of my stance on the "fanfiction: pro or con" panel at Lunacon, and the resulting article in the NJ Star Ledger are beginning to bear fuit. Bitter fruit, at that -- have started getting hate mail.

People, get a clue. When I say that it's illegal, that's because it IS. Really. The courts have so-ruled, and it's been upheld. Argue against copyright. Push the fight to get rid of it, if you really think that's what's Right. For now, it exists. And if the copyright holder does not fight known infringment, they lose the right to claim copyright, which means that can't earn money off thier works. This is called "damaging your own livlihood."


Telling me I shouldn't be looking to make money off my work, because it's depriving you of your 'right' to create fanfic? Let's see you turn that around and hit your own paycheck, child. See how stringent you are about 'freedom' then.

Hell, I love fanfic. I wrote fanfic. I think writing fanfic is a great fannish thing. But keep it lo-key. Allow the official copyright holders to not see it. Don't trumpet yourself where they have no choice but to take note, especially the one-owner material (as opposed to media work, where there's more room to argue against the 'reasonable confusion in the market."). But remember that it's against established law, so when you're told to stop, you have to stop or face consequences. Why are you bitching at me for pointing that out?


Oh. And telling (threatening) me that you're not going to buy any of my books from now on? Hey, that's your consumer's privilege. I'm not about to cower in my shoes and stop speaking truth in public because of it.


But stop to think about what could happen, in a world where writers, and musicians, and actors don't get royalties from their work, and their income drops even closer to nil. You think you're still going to be getting these stories and shows you form fandoms around? Good luck.

Comments

[kradical.livejournal.com]

Brava! Well said! Fight the power! And other exclamations!

[ex-fashioni.livejournal.com]

I'll never forget, being at a con and chatting with Christopher Golden, when a girl came up to him as he was signing books. Following conversation went something like this:

FanGirl: I love your Buffy books, I've read all of them.

CG: Thanks, I appreciate that.

FG: I write too.

CG: Do you? Oh, that's great, really.

FG: Yeah, and a lot of my fans have told me that I write a lot like you-- and that my fanfic's even better than yours

CG: (muscle twitching ever so slightly) How nice for you. Except-- I don't write fanfic. I write licensed property novels under a contract from Fox while you're infringing on copyright law.

That's stayed with me for nearly five years. And I wrote fanfic too-- rehoned the writing chops on it before moving back into original material, but I would have never presumed to think it was my inalienable right or something.

[kefiraahava.livejournal.com]

"Telling me I shouldn't be looking to make money off my work, because it's depriving you of your 'right' to create fanfic?"

*facepalm* They didn't. No, no, I know they did, but what self-righteous little brats of whatever age!

If it's illegal, it's illegal. And just because they WANT doesn't mean they get to HAVE at the expense of someone else's livelihood, as you say.

[klingonguy.livejournal.com]

articulate and compelling and concise, but I can't help feeling this just adds to the doom that hangs over you. won't a certain mindset just react to your arguments as if they're further justification (or at least impetus) to imitate your writing?

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

"Telling me I shouldn't be looking to make money off my work, because it's depriving you of your 'right' to create fanfic?"

But...but...but...OW! That hurt, it was so stupid.

That makes no sense at all. WTF are they putting in the water these days? Valium?

[lagilman]

That mindset is already set. I'm perfectly willing to ignore them -- but not when they're sending me hate e-mail. I'm lazy, not a pacifist.


Anyway, "doom?" What "doom?"

[dancingwriter.livejournal.com]

Sorry about the hate mail. Fan fiction seems to be such a thorny issue. I certainly understand the impulse behind it--wanting more stories about the fandom you love, wanting to be part of it. But I don't understand the lack of respect many fic writers seem to have for the creators of these fandoms--not only in terms of not caring about copyright infringement but also in terms of messing with the author's characterizations and the like. (I have more sympathy, though, for the whole Mary Sue phenomenon, so long as it's not a canon character being turned into a Mary Sue.) Thanks to the Internet, though, the old genie's out of the bottle. People are going to keep writing fanfic (not really a problem, as you even said) and publishing it--which is where the trouble lies. The days of keeping it low-key and just passing copies of stories around to one's friends seem to be over. But that doesn't change the fact that copyright infringement is illegal. It seems to me that you are doing a service to fanfic writers by letting them know this, so that they can make informed choices about their actions. I'm not surprised that a lot of people don't like hearing this, though.

Sorry for the rambling comment. I thought I was more awake than I am. Getting more coffee now.

[klingonguy.livejournal.com]

well, okay, there is no "doom," I'm just havin a lazy Sunday and thought a little melodrama would be nice. :)

[allaboutm-e.livejournal.com]

I don't understand people who feel a proprietary self-righteousness towards other people's intellectual property.
"Ooooh, Joss / Gene / Amy, I love your characters so much I'm going to imagine my own stories about them and share them with my friends!"
Well, okay, I guess, as long as one realizes the boundaries of this. (as noted, the genie's pretty much out of the bottle, and the only big difference today is it's on-line instead of mimeograph)
But it's still someone else's property being played with, and if one isn't doing it within the legal boundaries, one needs to realize it's no different than, say, printing and distributing unlicensed Bart Simpson or Garfield t-shirts.
That is to say, it's theft, plain and simple, regardless of the trappings of admiration it's dressed up in.
:: le sigh grande ::

Any weirdness with folks sending you Wren stories or the like?

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

That article actually did get published? I never saw it so figured it just went away. You don't have a link, do you?

[peggin.livejournal.com]

People are such idiots. They're ignorant of the law, they want to stay that way, and they get pissed off when people try to introduce them to reality. Because, obviously, since you're the one who told them it's illegal, that makes it your fault it's illegal.

I mean, I enjoy reading some fanfic (although most of it is complete dreck) and I even dabble a little in writing fanfic, but I know it's not my "right" to read and write the stuff.

But stop to think about what could happen, in a world where writers, and musicians, and actors don't get royalties from their work, and their income drops even closer to nil. You think you're still going to be getting these stories and shows you form fandoms around? Good luck.

I've had this kind of conversation with my brother, when he wants to know how, as a Libertarian, I can be in favor of patents and copyrights and so forth, since their very existence depends on the government. I'm not sure I can completely reconcile it with being a Libertarian, but to me, NOT having laws protecting intellectual property is just stupid..

Like when people protest the cost of a new "miracle drug" and claim that the pill only costs 5 cents to make, so why are they paying $20 a pill. Well, the second pill might have only cost 5 cents, but the first one cost $50 million. If the drug companies don't have the power to recoup those costs, if another drug company can come along, steal the formula, and start selling those pills for 5 cents, there's never going to be another first pill.

The only real difference with creative works is that creative people will probably still create, but if they can't make money off their creations they're not going to put nearly as much of an effort into finding an audience for their work. Also, since they can't earn a living off their work anymore, they're going to have to find another source of income. This means they'll have a lot less time to do their creative work. So the work will still be there, but there will be a lot less of it and nobody will be able to find it.

I'm not sure I had much of a point with this, beyond my first sentence: People are such idiots.

[lagilman]

Any weirdness with folks sending you Wren stories or the like?



I've asked them not to. Don't see, don't have to respond. Likewise the person who was using the Retrievers universe as the basis for a gaming module. Don't tell me/my agent/my publisher, don't publish it yourself, go forth and have fun, my children.

[lagilman]

No link, no. I got sent actual physical clippings, courtesy of both the ex and my uncle, who saw it in the paper.

It was an okay article, although clearly, um, edited for space and Agenda.

[lagilman]

Being a Libertarian requires a LOT of mental juggling and personal compromise-making, I've noted over the years. Great theory, tough to live in the real world.

[affinity8.livejournal.com]

I've written yet, you've written it, kradical's written it, Mercedes Lackey has written it, we've enjoyed it/enjoy it still, it's becoming more and more common, it's the genie let out of a bottle. We argue about it, we make class distinctions based on it (e.g., the geek chart), we talk about law and single ownership vs. media ownership, we talk about fanfic's merits and drawbacks, we talk about it as part of a literary traditon or as copyright infringement, and this is a conversation that will be going on for many years to come, with people often reiterating the same arguments. The trouble with fanfic, imho, is not that it exists, but that instead of once being a fan labor of love confined to small circulation fanzines, it's everywhere on the internet, and it takes about fifteen minutes for a teenage "author" to post a drabble on fanfic.net and start bragging about her legion of fans.

I do agree that if the sole copyright owner of a work asks that people not write fanfic based on his/her work, then fanfic writers should respect that. Or at least keep it very, very, very, very, very quiet, as in "I write it and my two friends read it and we're done now."

[peggin.livejournal.com]

I think that's true of any political philosophy; they all have flaws. IMO, if you claim to be 100% Libertarian, Republican, Democrat, Socialist, whatever... it probably means you've decided you want other people to tell you what to think, so you don't have to actually engage your brain.

For me, being a Libertarian just means I agree with more of what that party has to say than I do any other party. It doesn't mean forfeiting my right to think for myself.

[lagilman]

And not call any author who disagrees with them "a moron."

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

Well said! Sing on!

I know the pain of speaking out against copyright infringement. I did a panel on fanfic and copyright at Norwescon a couple of years ago (me, a couple of authors, and a lawyer) and was the target of a lot of hostility as a result. The panel ended on time, after an exchange that went something like this:

Fanboy: You can't stop people from writing fanfic. Information wants to be free; the Internet gives us the right.

Me: The Internet doesn't give you the right to steal, which is what you're doing. And if information wants to be free, please put it in a box and let's see it wriggle is way out with no help from you. The law is the law, dude. If you steal something that someone else created and owns, it's against the law.

Fanboy: But if I buy it, it's mine.

Me: If you buy a copy of the original, the copy is yours, not the original, which is what you're doing when you buy a book or a DVD.

Fanboy: Uh...

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The part of the article that I don't understand is the not-direct-quote wherein they say you say that fanfic is something that people outgrow. And I'm wondering about the context of that, because it sounds a great deal more dismissive than you usually are about fandom.

[bentleywg.livejournal.com]

Found it (http://www.statesman.com/life/content/life/stories/11/27fanfic.html).

[lagilman]

The article was edited for space, as all newspaper articles are - I was on the phone with the reporter for over an hour, and many of my comments which bridged the space form "I wrote fic" to "I can't support it any longer" were cut. That...annoyed me.

That said, I DO believe that, for most people, writing fanfic is something they move on from. Either the fandom begins to bore or annoy them, and they don't find something else to refill the well, or they discover (as I did) theat they just don't have the time/energy to give to it.

It's not a dissing, just an observation, and one I stand behind (especially when confronted by what appear to be legions of teenage fic-writers posting everywhere).

That said, it has nothing to do with my comments about the legality thereof, which is what I was being attacked for.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

And just because they WANT doesn't mean they get to HAVE

I say this as a heavy heart because I am one of those fandom-is-a-way-of-life fans, but there is a loud and angry segment of panfandom that has a frightening sense of entitlement - and the internet gives them a louder, and more immediate voice. The ones who defend Real Person Slash and attack anyone who decries it, the ones who are protesting that JK Rowling didn't have the love affair they wanted in her latest book, etc.

There are some people in this world - and not just in fandom - who are simply not going to accept that what they can't have whatever they demand.

[kradical.livejournal.com]

And if information wants to be free, please put it in a box and let's see it wriggle is way out with no help from you.

May I steal this line please?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

it has nothing to do with my comments about the legality thereof, which is what I was being attacked for.

It was the "move on" stuff that I saw creating a lot of angst on fan sites, and it just didn't sound like you. Knowing that the bridge existed and was cut does.

The legality - no arguments there. I remember when C&Ds went out to fan writers, something the netficcers seem to not think ever happened.

I'm sorry you're getting hate mail. Not surprised, considering some of the crap that flys every time some people (in and out of fandom) don't get exactly what they want - but very sorry that it's your turn in the barrel for saying the truth.

[lagilman]

Oh, I knew when I went on that damned panel that I was going to take flak -- nothing people hate more than someone who has stopped doing the thing they still love (be it ficcing, or smoking, or whathaveyou.) Hey, I feel that way about people who give me grief about still going to conventions.

I really dislike people calling me a moron, and trying to threaten me, becuse I told them something they didn't want to hear, however. Especially when I never said 'don't do it." I said "it's illegal" and "don't tell me anything I might have to act on."

(In fact, during the panel I was the one one covering my ears and humming loudly when they did talk about Certain Fic, because if I heard something I would be professionally obligated to pass it along. Got a laugh, even if the person doing the talking was peeved at me -- jesus, woman, I was protecting you!)