picking the group-mind...

[lagilman]

I need two (preferably non-Christian, Jewish/Muslim acceptable) sigils - one to represent character A (essential matter, lawful neutral, totality) and the other to represent group B (lawful good, impartiality, harsh justice). I would like them to have some grounding in existing mythos, but not so associated with one particular entity/religion that they can't be reinterpreted....

any pointers?



(EtA: I mean 'sigil' in the older sense of "representation of a word of action/effect," if that helps)

Comments

[martianmooncrab.livejournal.com]

something from the Alchemy side of the house then...

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

In terms of the mediaeval cultures I know best, those two characters are overlapping, so this is something of a challenge. However, I wonder if something ring or disk shaped might work for A: it conveys totality and balance, and if could reference essential matter if it was also, say, some kind of stone (my instinct says flint, as that is a very early tool-forming substance and thus an early nexus of society and social order). Or something like the triskelion patterns that turn up on a number of megaliths -- picture here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_spiral It's referred to in that article as 'Celtic', but that's highly debateable, given the dates.
The double-headed axe is a fairly common symbol associated with justice: could that work for B?

[joannahorrocks.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

I'm having a hard time thinking of something you wouldn't have already thought of. So many cultures use some version of the circle (especially the ouroboros), the spiral, or the mandala to represent A. I'm not sure about the double-headed axe for justice; in Crete it was associated with goddesses, but I've also seen it compared to Thor's double-headed hammer. Alchemy, the Kabbalah, and ceremonial magic are full of cool sigils, but few that have any kind of easily apparent face value.

Can you say anything about the context? Will someone see a sigil, recognize it, and the reader will think "Oh, of course that's what it means!" or will you be describing and interpreting it for the reader so that it doesn't need any face value? I'm looking for my copy of Jung's "Man and his Symbols," thinking that might help...

[lagilman]

The context is global, preferably not-specifically-Western, sources of power.

I suspect at this point I could make something up out of whole cloth and convince people it works, but I'd hoped to find a reasonable jumping-of point...

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Sorry to be nit-picky, but how are you defining neutral? Not participating in any decisive way, or so determined on perfect balance that any act on one side of the good/evil divide must immediately be countered by an equivalent act on the opposite side?

What comes to mind for me is a balanced scale for the second one, and a tao symbol for the first one. I could also see a braid made of different colored strands for the first one, or something Escherish that interlocks somehow.

[lagilman]

Neutral as in unbiased, with no preference for one side or the other - the addition of LAWFUL meaning, save how certain structures are applied in an organized and consistent fashion to all elements.

[djonn]

The alignment categories initially pinged my old Dungeons & Dragons radar, which made me think of Character A as vaguely druidic. On second thought, however, I wonder if a version of the mathematical sideways-eight symbol for infinity would work -- perhaps, for the present purpose, inscribed or drawn or engraved with some particular pattern or flourish. Say, perhaps, an infnity sign incorporating some element of the triple-spiral design referenced above?

For Group B, hmmm. My mind also went to the scales-of-justice place, but I'm guessing that you've already eliminated that for text-appropriate reasons. (I'm also struck by your use of the word "harsh", which seems not quite in sync with the "lawful good" alignment tag.) My next thought runs to a hammer of some kind -- and here I'd suggest inventing a specific design, something that bridges the concepts of "war hammer" (i.e. Thor) and "judge's gavel".

[lagilman]

I had been considering the infinity sign (or a variant) for A, although I came to it more via the number 8....