in passing....

[lagilman]

Over in his LJ, kradical explains why he's going to DragonCon rather than boycotting it, as has been discussed in the blogosphere.

His reasons (both pro and con) are mine as well (we, in fact, discussed this seriously over lunch this week). So before you howl at me for attending, you might want to have a read. This hasn't been an easy question for years, it's not an easy question to answer now, either.

EtA: and in response to marlowe1's insulting and shrill comments both here and in kradical's post, I direct you to Keith's response.

Most of the discussion has been polite, reasoned and understanding of the complications. I'm not going to allow one bile-spewer to stop the discussion going forward.

Comments

[etcet.livejournal.com]

I look forward to meeting you there (I work on the MMORPG staff).

[cmpriest.livejournal.com]

Added to all that, the fact that even if they COULD buy him out, that'd still be a huge - no doubt multi-million - sum, right into the guy's pockets. It isn't easy to take something away from someone who legally owns it, and frankly - it shouldn't be. But it sure makes this a sticky situation, that's for damn sure.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

The excuse that DragonCon CAN'T buy out Ed Kramer legally (which is something that DragonCon has shifted towards after years of outright lying about the association) is a weak one for the attendees. Fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter whether or not DragonCon can cut ties with Ed Kramer.

The only thing that matters is that people who go to DragonCon as attendees and/or guests are giving money to Ed Kramer. So it's really your choice whether or not you give money to Ed Kramer and if you KNOW that going to DragonCon means that Ed Kramer is allowed to pervert the justice system and screw over the kids that he molested and then MOLEST more kids is one of the consequences, well then that's the fault of the PERSON ATTENDING DRAGONCON.

Whether or not DragonCon can cut ties with Ed Kramer is immaterial. There are plenty of science fiction conventions taht don't support pedophilia and anyone choosing to go to DragonCon is now just as culpable in being an accessory to pedophilia as DragonCon itself.

[lagilman]

You have spammed my LJ stating your opinion, over and over again. Spam does not impress me. Nor do insults, not accusations of cowardice, or enablement.

You aren't listening to what's being said. That's your choice. But while I understand your emotional stakes, you are ignoring the financial and legal realities of the situation.

And hurting a fannish institution under the cry of "why won't you think of the CHILDREN" ignores the reality that E Kramer will make money no matter what happens, unless DragonCon ends, and all the benefits thereof are destroyed.

DragonCon's board itself has not been accused, not has there been any call of abuse at the convention. The convention itself has never been accused of wrongdoing. You are saying that we need to destroy an innocent organization because of an accused criminal. I do not accept that.

I'm sure you're not going to agree with my arguments. I respect that, I really do. I had to consider all the aspects before I decided. But - since Ed will make money off DragonCon even if they disband, because he is legal shareholder and by law deserving if his shares - the boycott isn't useful. If you want to help the case against him, push the DA to prosecute already, and stop dragging their heels. Harassing his business partners of decades ago isn't going to help.

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

Get in touch with me through one of the usual channels. I have some more info on this matter that needs to say on the qt

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

The drawback to him being associated with the Con --even though he is banned from it-- is that he provides a lightning rod for the "See? Those nerds are nothing but perverts who will molest your kids!" argument.

Does that paint everyone with a broad brush? Sure.

Will people do it anyway? Yes. And people who never even heard of D*C will get up in arms over it.

[lagilman]

People who say that will also say that it's only video games that cause people to shoot other people, and all pagans are satanists, etc. If you listen to them you'll never hear anything useful or reality-based.

(IOW: not relevant to a useful discussion, IMO)

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

Maybe not relevant, but because it's child molestation it'll get a lot of press time. And since I live in a part of the country where the majority of people actually believe the other things you mention, it'll get a lot of play if a certain news station picks this up.

[lagilman]

This isn't a new story. They picked it up years ago, and tried to make a fuss, and the city of Atlanta, which makes BUNDLE off DragonCon, shurgged and said much what we've been saying, and life went on.

Anyone who wants to come protest or otherwise try to make trouble at DragonCon has the legal right to do so. Life will go on and the important shit will be dealt with, despite them.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

But as you are willingly becoming an accessory to pedophilia, may I just tell you that personally that YOU are making excuses to go to a place that gives money (willingly or otherwise) to a child molester to the tune of $150K a year.

Don't pretend to be innocent. And stop making excuses. Your decision to go to DragonCon makes you just as disgusting as the deluded idiots that tried to pretend that Ed Kramer was innocent for the past 12 years.

You are an accessory to aggravated child molestation. I'm sure you can live with yourself but that doesn't make you any less disgusting

[kradical.livejournal.com]

Danke for the link. And yeah, our conversation over lunch (as well as a later conversation with wrenn) was source material for that blog post. *wry grin*

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

Good for you.

Now you can go to a scuience fiction convention and support child molestation.

Hope you're proud of yourself. I'm sure the little boys that Ed Kramer fucked are sure happy for your moral stand.