Update on OWS 10/5/11

[lagilman]

Yes, I was at the Occupy Wall Street march.

No, I was not caught up in the police violence, as I'd left about half an hour before (having previous dinner engagement). If you haven't seen the videos yet, you might want to. But be warned, it's not pretty.

It was, until then, a peaceful, if loudly opinionated, march. We were at all times hemmed in by security gates, and the cops were outside the gates, often to the point where we could not move until they allowed us to go forward (at one point, after they held us for three changes of the light at a street crossing, creating a massive bottleneck (see: gates hemming us in) the chant of "Hey ho, let us GO!" was a thousand throats strong).

There were young children, and senior citizens marching alongside college students and middle aged folk (me included). We stayed within the barriers, and were carrying signs in our hands, not on sticks, so I'm not sure how/why someone in the NYPD decided that we were suddenly a threat that needed to be responded to with viiolence...

this from a police force that every single year handles a massive crowd of drunk partiers in Times Square without any violence. Makes you wonder, hmmm?

I didn't take many photos (being busy marching/carrying a sign) but here are a few (pre-violence): http://flic.kr/s/aHsjwhdWqc

ETA: for my outside-NYC friends saying "it's great that you did, I wish I could..." - http://www.occupytogether.org/ Join in, and pass it on!

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

I'm glad to hear you're okay. And I'm proud to know you!

[lagilman]

I feel bad that I'm not doing more.... I've been following OWS since it was first proposed, and it's pretty amazing how it's grown. Or maybe not so amazing... it took a lot to get us here, where so many different groups with utterly different ideas of what's "right" can agree that what exists now is wrong. And come together without insisting that their group lead/have sway....

We can do it. Congress can't, but we can. This is what democracy looks like. Chaotic, and messy, and amazing.

[mizkit.livejournal.com]

Terrific pictures!

[lagilman]

Not bad for a 2 year old cell phone, huh?

[fakefrenchie.livejournal.com]

I think this is similar to what going on in Greece!

I'm confused...what's the point/message for OWS?

[ruford42.livejournal.com]

First heard about this via a few posts and shares from friends on Facebook and found a few more, as well as some good old fashioned flame wars on G+ -- but did notice your comments there and after watching a few clips on the Daily Show and trying to read through occupywallst.org and occupytogether.org -- I'm still left very confused as to what's going on -- other than a bunch of people aren't happy with the financial situation of the country in general and a lot of people are unhappy with where that's left their own financial situation -- so they are..marching on Wall Street to effectively say...what?

So far, I don't understand what the goal is -- and so far the only outcome I can predict from this is some interesting arguments in court over the right to peacefully assemble versus private property rights and/or laws governing use of state parks.

Re: I'm confused...what's the point/message for OWS?

[lagilman]

First, remember that "Wall Street" is the shorthand for "the finance industry." Wall Street is more than a single location in NYC. The movement has spread across the country.


Part of the confusion, I suspect, is that we're used to groups like MoveOn and etc, which tend to have a single focus or political agenda.

OWS is not single focus. It is not "an organization." It is E pluribis unum. The 99%, tired of being used and abused by 1%, rising not out of a structured plan but the growing upswell of frustration and - yes - rage.

This isn't "people aren't happy." It is college students and retirees, freelancers and wage-earners, socialists and capitalists and independents, speaking up and saying "this cannot go on. This will not go on. We have nothing left to sacrifice, and yet, you refuse to give anything."

OWS acknowledges that there is no one single party with most claim or one single party with a solution. Only together. All of us.


or, to put it more visually:

http://dailybail.com/home/photo-of-the-day-dear-moveonorg.html

(sorry, can't figure out how to embed in comments, even now)

Re: I'm confused...what's the point/message for OWS?

[ruford42.livejournal.com]

OK...I'm still confused, but then this approach is foreign to my state of mind as the closest I get to shows of solidarity are suddenly finding myself in discussions of book recommendations whenever I find two or more people in the scifi/fantasy section of a book store.

So even though Occupation is trying to take over everywhere, it still seems mostly centered in NYC -- so have you seen any reactions from the people working on Wall Street?

Re: I'm confused...what's the point/message for OWS?

[lagilman]

I'm not sure what you mean by "take over everywhere." Protests are spreading. People are angry and upset everywhere, yes. You're not? You think it's ok that they're calling for the middle and lower classes to make more sacrifices, but refusing to accept any share of the burden (despite taking the benefits of "citizenship" for all their worth?


And the reaction from Wall Street is mainly to peer cautiously out their windows and ask their reporter friends what's going on (true story - a CEO called a NYT reporter friend to ask "are they dangerous?") They weren't expecting this - they didn't know sheep could grow teeth and claws.

(I am constantly quoting Mahatma Gandhi these days. "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.")

Re: I'm confused...what's the point/message for OWS?

[ruford42.livejournal.com]

Heh, now that's one amusing CEO.

The 'take over everywhere' was an over-generalization of how I'm seeing groups springing up in other areas of the country looking to march or protest at their local Wall Street.

As for angry and upset -- no, not anymore. I've moved into the realm of the disheartened and disillusioned, in short -- when it comes to the political and financial institutions, I'm a cynic.

I no longer trust politicians or financiers to be honest about what they will do or even what they can do any more, nor do I trust them to be diligent and competent enough to see things through.

Without inherent trust in the individual, it leaves me wanting some sense of accountability -- which while it can be a pain can be useful to not only catch the crooks but to catch the mistakes of the honest as well. But I haven't seen where any of the proposed methods of accountability have held up -- maybe having the financiers put faces to the numbers will help -- I hope so.

Re: I'm confused...what's the point/message for OWS?

[lagilman]

As for angry and upset -- no, not anymore. I've moved into the realm of the disheartened and disillusioned, in short -- when it comes to the political and financial institutions, I'm a cynic.

As am I - or, as I prefer to call it, a practical pragmatist. But I am also a historian, and I've seen that the raised voice can bring down walls. Or Wall Streets. And, for me, I think a dose of healthy activism is better than just shrugging, and accepting the bend-over. More, when asked, I refuse to say "I stood by, and did nothing."