Guess what I'm doing today?

[lagilman]

STETSTETSTETSTETSTETSTETSTETSTET
stabbitystabbitystabbitystab
     STETSTETSTETSTETSTET
        stabbitystabbitystabbitystab



I've had excellent CEs before.  I've had mediocre/mostly harmless ones before.  I've never had one that changed words to WRONG usages, had no idea about basic epic fantasy terminology (and failed to look it up), AND rewrote random sentences not because they were incorrect but (apparently) because the CE didn't like them - and then chirpily asked "ok?"  No.  NOT OKAY.

I should be done with this by now, not barely 1/4 of the way through.  Your job is supposed to be to make things cleaner, not muck them up.


[and yes, my editor has been informed that I am Not Thrilled.  But the damage has been done]

Comments

[firynze.livejournal.com]

...oh god, it's like me on Proofs Day at the day job. SO MUCH STETTING YOU STUPID WOMAN WHY DO YOU INSIST ON MAKING WRONG CHANGES?

Admittedly, I go and rewrite sentences all the time when I'm editing, but I'm a MANAGING EDITOR, not a copyeditor or proofer. You're a proofreader, you do not get to tell me that X should be rewritten just because you don't understand the use of the semicolon.

*growl*

So much sympathy for you.

[0eris0.livejournal.com]

So how permanent are those changes? Is it something you can change before the book gets produced?

HULK ANGRY!!!

[lagilman]

These re NOT permanent changes. That's why I get to see the copy-edited manuscript, to prevent them from being permanent. My name on the cover, my say on what's on the page.

But man, competence in copyediting makes the writer's life SO much better & brighter & happier....

[ubiquitous-a.livejournal.com]

AND rewrote random sentences not because they were incorrect but (apparently) because the CE didn't like them

OMG, I hate it when people do this. I do technical/business proposal writing, and it drives me nuts when people tear things apart not so much because they're wrong as they didn't like the wording for reasons surpassing understanding. Part of me feels like they're doing it just so they can look as if they're somehow doing something, when all they're really doing is being an attention whore.

[cepetit.myopenid.com (from livejournal.com)]

That sounds like virtually every partner in a law firm in the world.

And you've seen how most lawyers write, right...?

[desperance.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. I have so been there and done that, worn out my stetting-pencil...

Right now, I am a little flummoxed by receipt of a CEM which is just an electronic document with no tracked changes, no comments, no indication of what has been changed and what not. Am I supposed to remember? Or to compare it word by word with my original? Or - this, I presume - just skim through it and let it pass...?

[ubiquitous-a.livejournal.com]

This drives me nuts as well. There is a way to compare two Word docs, but it's still a PITA.

[lagilman]

Oh FFS. I'd refuse delivery and demand the marked-up version.

[goingferal.livejournal.com]

There's a pretty easy way to compare two Word document versions--in Word2007 under Review then Compare.

[chaoticgoodnik.livejournal.com]

Gah. I'm reminded of a post CJ Cherryh made recently, on the topic of a similarly ... life-complicating ... copy editor. She amplified in the comments:

It was no intern. It was a guy of some experience—who then, after that screw-up, which had to be totally redone for the paperback, told Warner he was 'my regular copyeditor' and got the job of copyediting Cyteen. That all had to be undone. I had over 200 stets on one page, you couldn’t see the text for the corrections, and I was on the phone to my editor saying: "Go straight from my typescript and it’ll save us both from a rubber room." (source (http://www.cherryh.com/WaveWithoutAShore/?p=2708&cpage=1#comments))

Here's hoping that the person whose errors you're dealing with never eats lunch courtesy of this genre again.

one of these is mine. the other is not.

[lagilman]

"Kai lunged as he spoke the order, swinging his mock sword down with the same force as he might use in a true battle."


"Even as Kai ordered, he lunged, swinging his mock sword down with the same force as he might use in a true battle."


What do y'all think?

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[fakefrenchie.livejournal.com]

IMHO, the first sentence is better than the second sentence.

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[lagilman]

Yeah well, too bad. The second one is mine. :-P

(the point being they're both not-wrong, but the CE should not be imposing HER voice over the writer's choice. I wrote the sentence in a certain way intentionally.)

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[ubiquitous-a.livejournal.com]

I think it's one thing to change a sentence around because it will provide more clarity, but I agree this example is more about style than substance. That being the case, it should be the author's style, and not the CE's that shows through, I believe.

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[goingferal.livejournal.com]

It's possible to misread the 2nd variation--with the "even as Kai ordered, he lunged" instead meaning something more like "he lunged just as he had been ordered by Kai" -- which would be a problem with the reader being confused by the antecedent of "he."

(Not to defend the copyeditor--in that case, I would have been very hesitant to rewrite unless I was terribly confused by the writing... which maybe this person was?)

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[lagilman]

It's possible, yes, if you're reading carelesly. However, in the context (which, admittedly, you didn't have), there are only two people in the scene, the other person being on the receiving end of the lunge, and reacting in the next sentence.

(and I keep typing that as "lunch." I may need food.)


Probably, had this been a singular occasion, I would have said "y'know, fine, whatever." But there's a definite pattern of the CE deciding to go for the modern, more straightforward phrasing, at the expense of the established style. Which is NOT the job description of a copyeditor.

I'm fine with rewriting for clarity. I am not fine with changing the flow of a complicated sentence to cater to the least-careful reader. "See Jane as she moves, her body at speed," has more poetry than "See Jane run."

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[goingferal.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I totally agree.

I try really hard not to change anything unless it is WRONG. I am not the writer, I am more like the clean-up crew who is supposed to be *supporting* the writer, not making things more difficult.

There's a definite crazy-making infuriation that comes from trying to clean up after a copyeditor proofer who *does not get it*. My sympathies. I extend to you a freshly sharpened red pen to continue your stabbing. :)

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[lagilman]

The thing is... normally I look at a copyedit and go "okay, okay okay, nuh-uh, okay, okay..." I'm perfectly happy for someone to come in and clean up after the messy, creative, story-obsessed, style-focused writer. I don't pretend to have perfect grammar, and god knows I abuse commas like it's a h/c scenario. And sometimes there's a logic-fail "oops" moment everyone except the CE misses.

But when it comes to word choice and sentence structure? I spend a lot of time and mental energy getting it to say exactly what I mean, and to sound how I want it to sound.



(so yeah, in this one instance, this one place, I am a diva. Damnit.)

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[(Anonymous)]

Not so much a diva as the Author.

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[blazedglory.livejournal.com]

Not so much a diva as the Author.

[chris-walsh.livejournal.com]

I keep typing that as "lunch." I may need food.

Like the time I was at my desk, hungry, and listening to the CD of Pink Floyd's The Final Cut. I looked at the case and read "Your Possible Pasts" as "Your Possible Pasta."

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

FWIW I did think the first sentence had a bit more of an active voice which (under the circumstances) seemed more appropriate for the action being described - HOWEVER, the second sentence (which you say was the original one) was not in any way shape or form DEFICIENT enough for a copyeditor to start rewriting the story in a different voice from that which the author intended.

I've HAD those CE's myself. They really are enough to make you want to go and hit your head against a brick wall.

My absolute favourite - and it REALLY made me lose my shit because this is a personal hot button of mine and I would NEVER do this and it was going to be my name on the cover and I couldn't be sure whether I'd found and nuked all instances - was one CE changing "its" to "it's" and vice versa... SEVERAL TIMES... far too often for it to be an accident. I finally demanded from the Higher Powers how it was possible for a person whose basic grasp of grammar was so painfully deficient to be given free rein with someone else's PERFECTLY GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT PROSE???

In other words {strong sympathies}...

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[lagilman]

possibly my favorite (ahem) moment of all this was her changing "...before he had no more blood left to spill" to "UNTIL he had no more blood left to spill." Because, um....

(the character in question was clearly alive at the time, having survived the injury with blood still left)

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[anghara.livejournal.com]

...OY.

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[lagilman]

I think -- I'm not sure, but some other folk can back me up - I think that's where I really started to froth.

Re: one of these is mine. the other is not.

[debg.livejournal.com]

Second usage MUCH better. Terse and to the point. The first one reads, honestly, like porn someone's trying not to write. He lunged as he spoke the order - really not.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

That's horrid. Sympathy (and cake).

[debg.livejournal.com]

Oh for EFF'S SAKE, kill her. Kill her a LOT. Here's my crossbow (which this ninnyhammer probably wouldn't recognise until she was bleeding).

Here's my FOAD stamp. Use at will. Or whatever her name is.

[seachanges.livejournal.com]

And this person is still employed why, exactly?

You have my profound sympathies. You may also have my titanium spork, should you want it.

[naienko.livejournal.com]

And this is exactly why I /want/ to be a copyeditor! /headdesks I would be so much better than this ...

[mizkit.livejournal.com]

Having had two of those (in fact, I bet you've got the CE I've had), I have learned from Garth Nix's excellent advice, which was to send the manuscript back with a note that says "Don't waste my time." Next time I'm doing that. (He did that on his third book. I wish I had.)

[lietya.livejournal.com]

That is amazingly frustrating. The most basic job description of the copyeditor is, as you say, "do not actively screw things up."

What boggles my mind AS a copyeditor is the conscious choice to make a huge amount of extra work for oneself to no actual purpose...