putting it to the reader...

[lagilman]

Copyeditor seems to have a problem with two secondary characters having similar names (apparently, no two people in the history of any world ever shared variations of "John" or "Thomas."). Considering they are in different countries, and hold different jobs, and interact with different people, I don't see any way there could be confusion between the two, and I chose names very specifically in this world to highlight the connectivity and mobility of the cultures.

But I'm willing to accept that some readers may be distracted by "Joseph" and "Josef" (example, not actual names). So....

[Poll #1368118]


The results of this poll are for informational purposes only and are not binding upon the author

EtA: anyone voting for "flip your editor" will be forwarded to Mam'selle Editrix for discussion of same.

Comments

[shana.livejournal.com]

I don't think it would be confusing, provided they don't have similar speech patterns.

There are authors where I have trouble telling people apart because they sound alike, not because their names do. ^_^

[girasole.livejournal.com]

I like characters to have distinct names, unless it is a plot point. It means I am not drawn out of the story by trying to figure out if this is Mary or Marie.

[lagilman]

but would Mary the Bus Driver be confused in your reading with the appearance a few chapters later of Maria the Podiatrist?

[celticboy.livejournal.com]

Bah I was going to vote for flip your editor, but I went with option 2. :(

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

RE: "flip your editor"

Does she have the requisite training for a safe throw (in the judo sense)? We try to avoid injuries in the dojo . . .

(I wouldn't have any problem with the names, as you describe.)

[djonn]

This is one that I can't answer without actually seeing the context. I agree with the general advice that similar names are often unwise given the potential to confuse the reader, but I also recognize and respect the use of similar names for plot or thematic purposes, or when you are writing in a culture where a handful of names recur frequently (see, for instance, Andrew Greeley's novels about Irish Catholics).

Thus, while I will refrain from voting for "flip your editor", I think you may want to discuss this one with Mam'selle Editrix.

[mindyklasky.livejournal.com]

I'd spend a bit of time, trying to figure out what the "true" nature of the relationship of the characters is - are they intended to be brothers? Spirit pairs who have the same role in the lives they lead? Something else Deep And Meaningful.

Then, I'd move on, and read the story that you wrote.

(My feeling is, basically, if it pulled the CE out of the story, it might pull a number of readers out, and unless I have a strong a reason to keep something, I accept CE notes on stuff like this.)

[earthgoat.livejournal.com]

I just liked the "flip your editor". For me it's an either/or situation. Noticing two characters with similar names would make me stop for a second the first time I encountered it so that I could process that they were indeed separate characters. I would then proceed on my merry way through the book!

[lagilman]

Really? You'd try to do that with characters who don't interact at all? (they interact at various times with our main characters, ut they're secondaries). because...wow. Je vous accuse d'être un academic! *grin*

[yeah, I know, my French sucks]


Copyeditors are good and worthy and keep us from making Stupid Writer Mistakes. But they're not always right (ex: "someday" vs "some day", which I'm holding tough on, because "someday" wasn't what I meant)

[mindyklasky.livejournal.com]

Oh, I fight them on grammar stuff all the time :-)

But storytelling? If I don't have a strong storytelling reason for what I've done?

::shrug::

Je ne suis pas un academic any more. :-)

[lagilman]

Ah. Whereas I let them have their way on grammar [house style wins every argument, and I'm okay with that], but fight them on storytelling. Especially since, as I said in my post, I had a specific reason for choosing names.

[mindyklasky.livejournal.com]

And, just to clarify, I fight them on grammar when I know I'm right and they're wrong (which happens all too often - sigh...) And I fight on storytelling that I believe in.

Gee. I need an editor, just to make myself clear here :-)

(And, if you had a specific reason, then stick with it - the payoff to your reader should be worth any momentary confusion as they realize that connectivity and mobility don't mean *identical-ness* of characters.)

Re: name similarity

[wolfieboy.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's easier in print. If I get confused, I can always backtrack. And if you have a reason to choose the names, I'd suggest that you stick by your guns and use the names you chose.

[kriz1818.livejournal.com]

With the caveat that it depends, a bit, on how many characters there actually are in the book. I've read books with lots and lots of characters where I found I couldn't remember which minor character was which even when their names were Joe, Mary, and Zipporah (for a random example).

[irismoonlight.livejournal.com]

It would not be confusing to me and certainly not to you. but having had people confuse characters of mine simply because their names started with the same letter and they were the same number of characters long, "Mark and Mike," for not-the-exact example, I'd say your editor is right.

You know the characters so well that you can't IMAGINE anyone confusing them, and perhaps you see the suggestion as a slight on your character development. It isn't. Most readers are not going to pay as much attention or be as immersed in your world as you are. And if they pick up the book after a two-day hiatus of real life, they're not going to remember which Joe is which.

My two very cheap cents. (don't hit me.)

[lagilman]

1. it was the copyeditor, not the editor. The copyeditor's job is to pick nits, which is what she's doing..

2. as was said in the original post, these are not characters who appear in relation to or interaction with each other, or even in the same section of the book.

And nope, didn't take it as a slight on my writing as all -- actually I took it as a slight on the reader's intelligence. I was offended on YOUR behalf! ;-)

[lagilman]

true. this is a 125,00 book that covers two countries and three distinct plotlines. Readers who skim [occasionally guilty as charged] are going to be confused no matter what.

[mizkit.livejournal.com]

EtA: anyone voting for "flip your editor" will be forwarded to Mam'selle Editrix for discussion of same.

*laughs* I didn't notice the ETA until after I'd voted, but you can forward me to Mam'selle Editrix if you like. :)

[moirarogers.livejournal.com]

Bree and I actually had this issue with Crux, only with our editor. I will grant that she had a point; we use way too many A, J and M names.

I have fought name changes when they meant something to the story I was trying to tell, though. I refused to give a female character a more feminine-sounding nickname because the fact that everyone referred to her with a boyish, informal moniker was an important part of her characterization.

But I, uh, have also been known to blatantly disregard copyedit stuff as overly nitpicky and bizarre.

I say leave it if you had a reason for the names, and change it if you didn't.

Donna

[lagilman]

I could probably sell tickets to a toss-down between you an dianora2....

[wolfsilveroak.livejournal.com]

*awaits forwarding to said Editor*

}:P

[javacatz.livejournal.com]

Keep the names. As you pointed out, readers aren't stupid. Personally, changing the names just to make it easier to comprehend IS offensive. If the two characters had lots of interaction, maybe. But otherwise, no need to help us along.

I would have voted for flip your editor, but only if you take pics. :-)

[martianmooncrab.livejournal.com]

shared variations of "John" or "Thomas"

*snicker*

If I cant tell the characters apart, it doesnt matter what they are named. So if you have a Thomas, Tom, and Thom, they have to be distinct.

[lagilman]

thank you. I've been waiting for someone with a feeelthy mind to come along.

And yeah, these characters are reasonably distinct.

[girasole.livejournal.com]

Yes. It's sad, but true.

[martianmooncrab.livejournal.com]

I noticed that everyone else was being very polite, and I couldnt resist.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Hopefully your readers are paying more attention to the text than this, but my mother complains these days if there are two characters whose names begin with the same letter.

[tru2myart.livejournal.com]

:chuckles: I voted flip your editor and then read your note and went Oh Crap. :D

Honestly, my opinion only, if the book is good and I'm that into it I develop such a strong bond with the character that a similarity in name wouldn't phase me. Now if the names were identical and they interacted with each other I might be thrown. But in your example I'd flow with it.

[handlebar605.livejournal.com]

just as a guess, people wanting to flip your editor, would probably have no problem with the similar names.

Personally, as long as the names had enough dissimilarity (sp? is that even a word?)it should not be confusing.

[fakefrenchie.livejournal.com]

I would say that as long as you readers won't be confusing you with a 19th century Russian novelist*, you're safe.

*Dostoyevsky used to confuse me because all the characters had 4 or 5 names and he varied what he called them for reasons that I could not follow.

[purpledusk.livejournal.com]

Josef and Joseph are too similar for me personally. Mostly because as a reader I don't want to have to step back and say "is this Joseph or Josef and what do I know about them?" Characters' names serve as markers for the reader and unless it really matters it seems like a point of needless confusion.

Obviously this is not like Marquez's 100 Years of Solitude where everyone has the same damn name, but especially because these characters serve two different purposes and are in different parts of the world it would be better if each had distinct name.