this short story business, it's quite entertaining, so long as you know it sucks your soul...

[lagilman]

for your weekend entertainment, from the WiP:

"Even here, in this city filled with men – and some women – aching to make their mark on history, to achieve a fame and glory he once chased himself, he found little of interest walked through his doors. The usual assortment of sad drinkers and happy drinkers, hopeful drinkers and those resigned to there being nothing more than a momentary pause at the bottom of a glass; that was what came through."

1800 words in, and about to hit the first Turning Point...



Meanwhile, there is an interesting discussion going on in one of my pro mailing lists (yes, we old-timers still have those) about fanfic, the pros/cons of allowing it, and how it might be managed. And yes, there are legal cons to allowing it, despite what some people have said (it's not us being mean; the law is undefined and has cut both ways, and we (creators) are under the onus to defend, not allow. Believe me, most of us hate that, too). I've yet to see any Cosa Nostradamus fic out there [and no, this isn't a call to see it -- one of the very real and proven legal problems is fan-writers later claiming the author stole their ideas and, yes, that's happened].

But what I'm wondering is... if a creator were to set up legal writing that said, basically "I give you permission to play here with the understanding that anything you wrote about my characters or world would become my property, and that you have absolutely no right or claim to any part of my work or yours that is based on mine," would you be willing to sign off on that -- and accept that refusing that agreement would leave you open to prosecution?

I'm not saying I'm going to do that -- I'd have to run all this by a bunch of IP lawyers, and that's not in the budget right now -- but I'm curious, looking forward...

There's also been a proposal brought forward elsewhere about offering "special access" to worldbuilding &tc for ficcers, for a small yearly fee. I'm not quite sure I'm on board with that (fanfic is a labor of love, and unless I gave that money to charity I think I'd feel really uncomfortable with it) but that's another possibility -- you'd basically be licensing the right to play-for-non-profit, with similar legal terms as above.

Purely a theoretical discussion right now.... but as someone who enjoys fic herself, both the writing and the reading thereof, I'd love to find some legal way to protect everyone.

[and if you are writing fic? PB is sexually neuter. All demon are. Sorry....]

Comments

[pbray.livejournal.com]

Ooh, excerpt sounds intriguing :-)

[misofuhni.livejournal.com]

As an avid fanficcer (no, I'm not revealing my fandom. If it isn't apparent, then you don't really want to know.), I find this discussion of interest. Basically most of the writers I know write with the understanding that it is the originator's sandbox and toys and we're just guests that haven't been invited to play. We'll play with your toys in your sandbox and if you kick us out, we'll apologize and thank you for your time and stuff. I've participated in discussions with lawyers and judges over the legality of putting disclaimers on fanfic, with the understanding that no, it doesn't make the fanfic legal or acceptable, but as long as you say that this isn't yours, the original concept isn't yours, and you list who it does belong to, if the originator should come in with guns blaring, if you have a disclaimer on it, it should give your about 24 hours to get rid of it from all public forums.

I have a small suggestion about a part of a sentence. "...and that you have absolutely no right or claim to any part of my work or yours that is based on mine," Understand, this isn't the case in all fanfics, but I have read some fanfics where the worldbuilding is bigger than the originator's backround. Case in point, L. K. Hamilton's Merry Gentry series. She's dealing with the Irish/Celtic/Gaelic canon of the Sidhe with the AU that they came over to the U.S. in the 1700's (or so). If someone were to start a fanfic with Merry, then it were to branch out into a completely different story, and if the fanfic author were to alter it so that the line between fanfic and original fiction were to be blurred, can Ms. Hamilton lay claim because there are Sidhe in the U.S. today? If the fanfic makes no mention of the history of how the Sidhe came to the U.S., does the fact that it takes place in the U.S., something that Ms. Hamilton 'started', give her the geis of 'original concept'?

Also, the play-for-non-profit sounds like a fantastic idea and one that, I think, would have a great draw in the right communities.

My two cents.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

I think you're on to something with the pay to play concept. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some IP contract lawyer hasn't already figured it out and locked it up to the benefit of the publisher...or that this particular subright wouldn't be identified and be written into a contract soon after people started doing it. Very cynically, I could see it being a decent moneymaker for video productions especially.

But I'm cynical as hell these days.

[blitheringpooks.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard and read, haven't there been more than a few people who wrote fanfic and later were able to rewrite and revise and sell as original fiction? For example, one situation I heard was X-Files fanfic, where the author's idea and execution was such that she was able to rewrite w/o the Mulder/Scully characters and simply use the situation/plot/background in a different way. Some people bring so much originalityl to their fanfic it's possible to do that, so I'd definitely think this is a good amendment.

[misofuhni.livejournal.com]

I won't comment about the sale of such original fiction after it started out as fanfic (unless some published author is willing to admit that they did this), I don't know. But I do know where a fanfic author will pull their fanfic is the hopes of revising it to put it out as an original fic.

[blitheringpooks.livejournal.com]

I think there are some worlds where it would work more easily than in others. X-Files, for example. If somebody comes up with a weird happening to be investigated, and ends up thinking it's pretty clever, unusual and unique, they might decide to use it in an original piece, w/o the X-Files characters and set up. I think it could work. OTOH, if they have a male and female team investigating that are very obviously Mully and Sculder, that's different.

Oddly enough there's a YA novel out now where the author admits to being inspired by Alan Rickman and has written a character who seems based on him as Snape (appearance and personality, somewhat--he really seems more handsome but brooding generic romantic hero than Snape). However, the world and story are so incredibly different (19th Century Jack the Ripper), I'm not sure people would have ever connected those dots if she hadn't announced it.

[(Anonymous)]

As a not-so-wandering IP lawyer (and sometime "pro" -- sort of, it didn't count as "pro" under the then-obtaining rules)...

Our Gracious Hostess has only begun to scratch the surface of the problem. Basically, fanfic proponents think only of copyright law... and forget trademark law (the "must defend" aspect) and restrictions (whether proper or not) in publishing and other contracts. IMNSHO, there isn't a universal "solution" here; there isn't even a universal "decision matrix" here, as I indicated in my notorious blog-series-cum-essay:
www.scrivenerserror.com/weft/fanfic.shtml

--Jaws
scrivenerserror.blogspot.com

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

Isn't that what starwars.com does? I think so.

[misofuhni.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the link! I found it to not be informative in the crazy nonsense known as legalese. You make some sense, though. (As spoken by someone who doesn't have a leg to stand on in this department)

[lianneb.livejournal.com]

Sounds a bit like a Creative Commons license. (Derivative rights, non-commercial, blah blah blah)

Personally, I am a fanfic writer, but I tend to avoid single creator works. I go with movies and tv series, where through the writers, the directors and the actors, a lot of voices have already put in their two cents. Books with one (or two or three) writers, I don't tackle.

The only exceptions have been 1) books with multiple adaptations (such as Lord of the Rings) and 2) work for hire series where there are multiple writers working to a bible (Mack Bolan, for example; more than 700 books and dozens of writers).

Mind you, I'm also one of those sensible writers who would never consider suing unless (highly unlikely) some one else professionally published my story with their name. Not plot, but the actual writing, because that would be blatant plagiarism.