aaaaaaaand....

[lagilman]

I have sent an e-mail to the airlines I maintain frequent flyer miles on, informing them that while the newest restrictions are even being considered, I'm going to be taking my travel miles to alternate venues (even if the train does take longer).

I'm all for safety, but there's safety and then there's insanity. You cannot defend against every possible thing someone determined to die might do. Not unless you are willing to give up the very act of living, yourself.

EtA: from CNN: "Airline terror suspect's family members say they tried to warn authorities." Not two days ago, not two weeks ago. Two MONTHS ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/28/airline.terror.attempt/index.html

Comments

[black13.livejournal.com]

Context?

[lagilman]

*blinks* You haven't heard?


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/us/28security.html?_r=1

"As Detroit’s airport was rattled on Sunday by a second frightening incident in three days, passengers at airports in the United States and around the world encountered stiff layers of extra security, with international travelers undergoing newly required bag inspections, body searches and questioning at security checkpoints and before they boarded planes....

International travelers were also told that they could not leave their seats for the last hour of a flight, during which time they also could not use a pillow or blanket. They were also limited to one piece of carry-on baggage, including a purse or briefcase, and that piece had to be stowed in an overhead compartment for the last hour of a flight."

[black13.livejournal.com]

Of the incidents, yes. Of the restrictions, no. Probably because I don't pay much attention to airline restrictions anymore. I already consider air travel restrictions too much of a harrassment, so we avoid flying whenever we can.

The PTB will use these incidents as the excuse they need to put up the rape scanners they've been salivating over for a year or two now. Even though those rape scanners wouldn't have detected the stuff the first Nigerian brought onboard.

I won't be surprised when security restrictions reach the point that you can't bring any carry-on luggage at all on board a plane, and have to board completely naked, handing your clothes in at check-in and not getting them back until after you've landed.

You think I'm joking? Nope. Unfortunately, I can actually see that happening. It's the logical step they'll take after the rape scanners will fail to detect something.

This has nothing to do with safety anymore, this is all about hysteria.

[lagilman]

This has nothing to do with safety anymore, this is all about hysteria.

I don't disagree. But hysteria can often be combated by an appeal to the bottom line. It's one of the few constants of a money-driven society, and can be used for positive as well as negative ends. Hence my letter.

(some people rant publicly, some sit and shrug. I prefer to pick up my shovel and move what I can)

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I told Wife that unless we have an emergency (funeral, hospital, the like), next time we head out, we drive.

[cypherindigo.livejournal.com]

The train is good, it is actually my preferred form of transportation.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

Do these restriction affect flights entirely within the U.S?

I thought it was just international flighters.

(Which would beg the question as to whether you fly internationally).

Is you hope that the airlines will get so many complaints that they will appeal top the TSA to change the rules?

[klingonguy.livejournal.com]

rape scanners???

[http://users.livejournal.com/tesserae_/]

As they've ably demonstrated, the whole thing is nothing but security theatre.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Some people believe that the "whole body" scanners give an intrusive level of anatomical detail. Don't know if that was the meaning . . .

[lagilman]

It's international flights right now, but I tend to do a decent number of those... and who knows how far the overreaction will spread?

[saladinahmed.livejournal.com]

For shame! Don't you know that if you have to go to the bathroom in-flight it means you Hate Our Freedom!?

[lagilman]

considering I mocked @mykecole for his bladder control issues during Avatar, I wonder how they'd react to an American-born ossifer w/ several tours under his boots bolting for the bathroom less than an hour to landing..

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Actually, according to a couple of news reports I saw, the random idiocy is also showing up on US domestic flights. One from New York to Florida was mentioned.

[6-penny.livejournal.com]

They'll strip us, issue astronaut diapers, strap us to stretchers, and stack us in freight.
No one will be released until collected from the passenger conveyor belt by a licensed recpient with the appropriate ids - at least three, and appropriate security clearances.
Uncollected passengers will be recycled.

[jslinder.livejournal.com]

Bear in mind the airlines don't necessarily have a choice on SOME of these 'initiatives', they are mandated by the TSA (Trying to ScrewOver America). If the airlines don't cooperate they can lose their flight certs.

That said, I still have not figured out which of the new 'guidelines' (other than those at the security checkpoint, which are all TSA), are being used by the airlines to allow non-customer friendly procedures. This is because the new restrictions are considered 'classified' at this time, so one can't tell what the TSA has actually mandated.

As far as the full body scanners.. I have both been through one, and operated one. Provided they are operated in a responsible manner (which is NOT a given), the process can be handled respectfully. In a correct operating environment, the view station is separated from the scanner, with no visual connection. The machine is also configured not to store images. Other than if you had a truly distinguishing feature (like an artificial leg), the odds that an operator who saw the image would be able to identify you is slim to downright impossible. And assuming the explosive was in fact PETN, the body scanner would have picked up the plastic package attached to his leg as a variance from expected parameters and triggered a pat down (which are often more intrusive than the scan. This is one area where they hype has outstripped the actual hazard (and I speak as a pretty hard core civil libertarian).

Overall, I think the overreaction to this incident may become a net positive. It seems that finally, people OTHER than frequent flyers are starting to see how ineffective the aptly named 'security theater' actually is, and are starting to squawk. The problem will lie when people find out what kind of procedures ARE effective, like profiling, body scans, hand searches of luggage, etc.

[wolfsilveroak.livejournal.com]

I won't fly. I haven't since 1993 and won't ever again, if I can at all help it.

[wolfsilveroak.livejournal.com]

We love taking the train. Especially when we get our own 'roomette'.}:P

[lagilman]

Unfortunately, that's not an option for me -- traveling cross-country takes too much time, and I'm not about to book an ocean liner to go overseas....

[lagilman]

Sorry, I don't see there being a "net positive" to the way we're being treated right now. Anything that's established can be worked around by someone who is willing to die -- and since what's already in place isn't working (how do these explosives etc get ON the plane in the first place, if the screening's in place?) then what will additional precautions do?

This is a hysterical insta-reaction, and I don't see any positive at all, except showing the TSA squalking like a headless chicken.

(I'm more worried about pilots who are distracted enough to overshoot their damn airport, myself)

[jslinder.livejournal.com]

By net positive I mean that its generally been true (not always) that the so-called 'mainstream media' is now taking a more cynical look at these procedures. It's not a given, but expose crap to enough sunlight, it can eventually decompose.

[blazedglory.livejournal.com]

Overall, I think the overreaction to this incident may become a net positive. It seems that finally, people OTHER than frequent flyers are starting to see how ineffective the aptly named 'security theater' actually is, and are starting to squawk.

Except they're not. I was disturbed by the remarks made by so many of the passengers:

“It was long, but we were appreciative.”
“They’re being extra cautious, which I guess is fine. But I don’t understand what it is they’re looking for. They went through my bag three times, and still I got my scissors and tweezers on the plane.”
“Everyone just accepted that that’s what you have to do."
“I’m quite happy for them to do it. It’s peace of mind for everyone.”
“In the end,it was just an inconvenience.”

Laura Anne is right; it's not going to stop anyone who's willing to die for the cause.

This isn't all I have to say on the situation, so I'm taking this to my own LJ blazedglory.

[smoemeth.livejournal.com]

I just got my flight info for my trip to the MIDEM conference in Cannes next month. The return flight goes to JFK via Amsterdam. *headdesk*

I can't not go to the conference, but I am really, REALLY not looking forward to it any more.

I am already seriously re-evaluating our North American touring plans for 2010 to avoid flying wherever possible. We won't be able to avoid flying to the UK, but believe me, if I could figure out a viable way to get there by boat, I would do it.

Farewell, American international tourism industry. It was nice having visitors from other shores while it lasted.

[lagilman]

I am hoping, if there is enough outcry (cry out, people!) that these new and incredibly stupid regs will Go Away in favor of the TSA actually doing their job in scanning and searching at the gates. "cause once it's on the plane? You're rolling the dice, is all.

(Personally I think the greatest deterrent to a terrorist is the fact that we know to fight back, and not hope for a peaceful resolution. Or, as the very tall man next to me on the flight to Montreal in 11/01 said: "anything happens, you go for his knees, I'll go for his shoulders.")

[rhienelleth.livejournal.com]

(Personally I think the greatest deterrent to a terrorist is the fact that we know to fight back, and not hope for a peaceful resolution. Or, as the very tall man next to me on the flight to Montreal in 11/01 said: "anything happens, you go for his knees, I'll go for his shoulders.")


I absolutely agree. I used to teach a women's self defense class, and the concept is very much the same. Going along with the attacker and hoping for a peaceful resolution is the most dangerous thing you can do, most of the time. And most attackers count on being able to threaten their victim into submission. some give up and run away when presented with a little fight.

On the other hand, if you can escape by running away and not engaging, do that. On a plane, though, you don't have that option.

[smoemeth.livejournal.com]

There appears to be a slight whiff of sanity: KLM Blog

Hopefully by the time I fly (a month from today, yes on KLM) things will have calmed the hell back down. 'Tis a slim hope, but one must remain optimistic in order to get out of bed in the morning.

[maryrobinette.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm planning on reading on my upcoming flights and I will not put my book away if told to do so. Rob and I have already discussed the question of if he's okay with me getting arrested for non-compliance.

[maryrobinette.livejournal.com]

Oh, good. I'm glad that they got rid of the ridiculous "1 hour" rules.

[lagilman]

That's what I was hoping -- that they'd realize on-flight precautions are pretty damn useless, if someone's already smuggled explosives onto the damn plane (and why assume they'll set them off in the final hour, anyway?)

It would be nice if I could believe the emphasis would be on better training and follow-through with TSA, but.... well, have been flying a lot since 9/11 and am not filled with confidence in that agency, no.

[smoemeth.livejournal.com]

As often as I fly through the NYC airports, I can say that the TSA gives me *zero* confidence with regard to airport security.

[fakefrenchie.livejournal.com]

Leave it to the terrorists to do something crazy and to TSA to overreact. Sheesh!

[strigine.livejournal.com]

Heh! That was pretty much my response. (booked on return flight Wednesday) My parents are encouraging me. ;P

Birds fly . . . I go by choo-choo

[shalanna.livejournal.com]

The train rocks. Literally! Back and forth, slightly. Amtrak is wonderful and we loved our roomette on the Texas Eagle from Dallas to Chicago, the Lake Shore Express from Chicago to NYC, the Sunset Limited from Houston to Los Angeles . . . you don't really "suffer" even if there IS a delay, as the train has its own generators, and all you do is stop and then the auxiliary lights and ventilation comes on, and you sit in your room to look out the window or do your laptop/book/iPod thing, or go to the dining or bar car and eat or snack or play cards, or you go to the observation car to take pictures and talk to other travelers . . . it's great fun. Relax and don't think about getting here-to-there instantaneously--but know that "nothing stops this train unless the tracks are washed out . . . that ice and snow melts when this thing rolls towards it," said the conductor. Your attitude can be: The journey IS the reward. It's worth it!

I even kind of like the bus, for some trips. But we take our car or rent a car most of the time. That gives you freedom as to stopping at a roadside attraction or spying something interesting for a rest stop. I've seen lots of places I would never have seen if I'd been doing the trip as anything but a road trip! Candle factories, caverns, "mystery spots," an alligator farm, a snake farm (!!), Stuckey's, Rock City Gardens, and all that kind of cool stuff. Air travel is just too risky, too uncomfortable, and too expensive. Also, I can't approve of people telling you how long is it "allowed" for you to sit on the potty . . . because sometimes you don't have much control over having food poisoning or another problem. Much more sensible to pull off the Interstate at the next Burger King . . . even easier to "go" on the train, where you might have a roomette or at most you'll have to go part way down a train car to a bathroom. Bathroom privacy is one of our last "privacies" these days--fight for it! (grin)