we deserve each other, you and I...

[lagilman]

For my sins (and because I really do buy into the "pay forward" theory) I've volunteered* to work with the incoming non-member queries about how to [fill in the blank] with regard to publishing/writing.

Many of the queries run along the lines of "how do I become a successful writer?" Verbatim.

*is flummoxed*

ETA: oh, I know what to tell them. I just don't understand how anyone can come in cold, asking for An Answer presumably waiting to be handed over, and if it's arrogance ("it can't be THAT hard") or stupidity ("it can't be that hard?").


I can tell someone where to go for information on agents, and manuscript formatting, and how to tell a scam from a real deal, and what questions they should ask when offered representation/a contract. I know how to, delicately, tell someone that no, we aren't a publisher and can't help them spread the word about their 2000 page epic boy-and-squirrel romantic fantasy. I'm even -- because I was an Evil Editor and have no soul to speak of -- able to dash their hopes about joining SFWA before they've made their required professional sales, no matter how bestselling their book will be some day.

But the total hopeful haplessness of some of the questions....

Do other "arts" professions get this sort of thing? Do people walk up to actors and say "how do I get a movie deal?" Do they ask painter "How do I sell my painting for a million dollars?"









* in SFWA, "volunteered" means Mary Robinette Kowal says "will you...?" in a voice that means "you WILL."

Comments

[editrx.livejournal.com]

Do other "arts" professions get this sort of thing? Do people walk up to actors and say "how do I get a movie deal?"

From my time in casting -- yes, unfortunately, people do actually ask, "How do I get a big movie contract?"

As a copyeditor or proofreader, I also get asked/told, "I read a lot. So I can do what you do; give me your contacts so I can work for them."

::facepalm::

[lagilman]

From my time in casting -- yes, unfortunately, people do actually ask, "How do I get a big movie contract?"

Are they at least already in the acting gig? Because once you've taken the first step, looking for the next big leap is silly/overambitious but natural. It's the ones who've never been on stage before who're looking for the starring role that make me crazy.

[editrx.livejournal.com]

That question always came from a first-time (ish) EXTRA. Yeah. Um, get your SAG card first, kid. Then work. A lot. And don't be a fucking extra. Once an extra, always an extra. You won't be pulled out of the chorus line; it just doesn't happen 99.9% of the time. It isn't a career climber. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Certainly, in my other life as a university academic historian, I was asked that question regularly. Usually by undergraduates, but not always -- a lot of people out there just know they could teach and research mediaeval history. (The standard reply was: get fundign for and complete a successful PhD. Publish in quality journals and ideally have a book deal. Apply for everything you can. Work, work, work. The things that couldn't be said? Watch out for academic politics. Be better than good. Be aware that if you start late in life -- which means older than 25, these days -- your chances are slim to none. Be aware that there is a pecking order for universities and if you're not from the right few, you're disadvantaged. Be in a hot subject if at all possible. Be in the right place at the right time. Be aware that contacts aren't a guarantee. Work even harder...) A lot of this translates to writing, I guess. But people will hear what they want to.
Kari

[lagilman]

Be in the right place at the right time

That's the one that's hard even for the jaded professionals among us to remember.

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

Do other "arts" professions get this sort of thing? Do people walk up to actors and say "how do I get a movie deal?" Do they ask painter "How do I sell my painting for a million dollars?"

Maybe not that way but yes it does happen all the time.

Even in puppetry to which is most asked question is "How can I work for the Muppets/Henson?"

And the stories I could tell you about casting would make your hair curl. Esp. with the Stage Moms who believe with all their soul that their kid is destined for greatness if we would just give them the role.

Then there are the groupies at rock concerts who "just want to meet the band" but there are also the ones that want to meet the band so that they can get their music to the PTB that will of course give them a multi million dollar deal on their homemade demo tape (It was tape when I had to deal with it. It is probably a CD now).

Comic Book artists and writers are forever getting hit by people who want to break in and feel that they are the next best thing when it is pretty obvious that their grasp on the human form is sketchy at best and Frank Miller is still the best at drawing stuff that looks like Frank Miller's art.

Peter is thinking about finally joining SFWA. I hope his credits will be acceptable. *grin*

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Completely OT, but I would like to talk to you at some point about puppet making and operation (puppeteering?).

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

More than happy to talk about that topic.

[lagilman]

Yeah, comic book artists are probably the closest analogy. Fans with enough imagination to "see" what could be done, but none of the training, and undetermined ability...

As for Peter, I'll see if we can find someone willing to put in a good word for him, just in case. *grin*

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

I think there might be a few members that would speak up for him *grin*

[sorek.livejournal.com]

Honestly I don't think even Frank Miller's that good at drawing Frank Miller stuff (which is a round about way of saying I don't like his drawing style :)

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

"Be interesting. Don't tell people about your ideas, write them down and develop them. Gather a circle of friends who love you enough not to BS you. Learn spelling, grammar, plotting, mapping, geography, and enough about almost everything else that you know where to look when you need to research everything else. Remind yourself that people are not identical, are not static, and do not think the same things or in the same ways. Tell yourself it's a job until you know it in your bones. And don't try to create GREAT LITERATURE."

Tidbits gathered/stolen from various author friends.

[lagilman]

Except you know they don't want to hear that. People who ask questions like that want to hear "you do X, and then Y and then Fame & Riches Follow!"

Alas, I cannot tell them that. I write fantasy for a living, not when giving advice.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

I have most of the qualities I listed, and can manage to do the rest except for one: I don't want to work hard enough for it.

[shalanna.livejournal.com]

I like this answer.

[therinth.livejournal.com]

At the hospital, we call "volunteering" like that being "voluntold" ;). Good luck!

[ex-fashioni.livejournal.com]

Oh honey.

Oh... HONEY.

I believe in pay it forward too, but one must draw a line in the sand for fear of, you know, otherwise going insane.

Do I need to get you a shirt that reads, "There is no magic button?"

[cypherindigo.livejournal.com]

Where do I find one of those shirts?

[lagilman]

Also: "there is no Magic Push." Ya gotta do it your owndamnself.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

I confess to being irked by the ones who look wistful and say "I know I have a novel in me!" - at the age of 58 or whatever. And who don't respond to being told to sit on their backside and write it.

They're usually the ones who resent writers' achievements, in what I think might be a classic case of projection.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

"how do I become a successful writer?"

Tellmetellmetellme!

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Mary Robinette? With that voice? That sweet lady?

(grin). Yeah, I'd do it too.

[cypherindigo.livejournal.com]

No one wants to hear the real answer....Write.

Write Every day, even when you don't want to...ESPECIALLTY when you don't want to.

[cypherindigo.livejournal.com]

And learn how to type and spell....

[house-draven.livejournal.com]

Got asked that type of question ALL THE TIME when I was in computer games. Even got it in politics. I think the clueless are everywhere.

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

Oh, even in the IT field we get the "how can I make as much as the founders of Google?" (Answer- have a great idea and get very very damned lucky, as in 'lottery win' lucky.)

However, due to the current economy, we get an entirely new set of questions. These are mainly due to a bunch of erroneous newspaper and magazine articles about how wonderful the IT field is in both pay and job retention. One article from several months ago informed their readers that IT was "where it's at" and that the average salary for help desk support was 79k-109k. I saw that and laughed hysterically.

The problem is that people read those articles and really believe them, making life harder for those of us in the field because we get bombarded with the "can I land one of those high paying help desk jobs?" ("Um, if you can find one, be sure to let me know because I'd like a crack at it.")

[nick-kaufmann.livejournal.com]

You really are a glutton for punishment, aren't you? Nice seeing you at the party last night, and thanks again for the favor!

[chicating.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I wonder why I still want to write a book(or a script) so much. Because although my *fantasy* still is a Rowling-type "score"(and I still keep it as a fantasy, I mean, it could happen, right?) but I'm not a twenty-year-old unpublished newbie anymore...that isn't what drives me to do that almost every day now. To some extent, every once in a while, there's something in me that I just have to say, but then why don't I write the world's most lyrical blog posts?(Although I do that, too, feedback fiend that I am)
I don't know...I do it because sometimes I know how and because it's one thing I always wanted that doesn't involve torturing someone till they love me again(although I do read Lehane so I can't say that either, can I?)
Sometimes, I love to do it, but even that isn't right, because it's not a carnival and because I would still trade skills with someone more successful.
You should tell the "novel in me," people to eat more fiber and see if it goes awaysuricattus but maybe that's because there's an Alan Grayson in me. But come on, people, there isn't an incantation or anything...if you don't care enough to put it to paper, nobody cares about the pictures in your head.
Another thing I hate about Stephenie Meyer is her embarrassing little Origins myth that she never tried to write anything in her life and dreamed up a best seller.Ok, first of all, I don't really buy that, although it's not that I *know* she is lying, and I have gotten ideas from dreams or while watching "True Hollywood Story" among other random pursuits.
But I hate it every time I hear or read it(and not only cause I'm jealous that I've not written my "Big Fat Greek Bitch" yet) but because it has taken me a long time to take this seriously, despite it being something I've done my whole life, and I'm just now barely beginning to get other people to take what I do seriously, in the tiniest way possible, and there's stupid Meyer and her mysteries of inspiration bullpuckey again.
Arrgh.To say nothing of the baby writers who might be going to sleep with their journals under their pillows every night...

[smoemeth.livejournal.com]

"How do I get a major label deal and become the next Taylor Swift?" Sigh.

I've never straight-out been asked a transparently dumb question like that, but I've certainly seen enough aspiring musicians running around the conferences (SXSW, CMJ etc.) who clearly have been asking it of other people.

More often, it's people asking for information they really would be better off figuring out for themselves. As with most things, it's as much about the journey as the destination.

Just be honest with them!

[shalanna.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling that this is like the times people come up behind me when I'm playing the piano at a party and ask, "How do I learn to play like you?" and "How long have you been playing the piano?" It is tough for them when I say, "I don't know," and "Since I was four." (I'm olde now.) They want to hear that they can pick up some software and that music is a matter of punching the proper keys like in a video game. Trust me, figuring out the notes and rhythm is only the beginning.

But I think the answer given by brownkitty is a good start. You could have a boilerplate email like that one ready to go out to people who are just asking casually, in general. It could help some of them realize that there's more to it than "inspiration and the pages pour out," as portrayed in so many movies and TV shows. My own mother has taken twenty years to accept that this isn't true: "If you were a REAL writer, you would just sit down one day Inspired and you'd type out the novel properly the first time around--just give it up, because if you have to go back through it and change things, you just aren't talented and you're wasting your time!" She could never accept that Paul McCartney wasn't born playing instruments and writing songs with no practice at all, either. It's tough for people to realize that this is hard work, and with fewer rewards than just about anything other than housework. (Housework not only goes unnoticed and is mocked, but can be undone in a second when the crew troops in from a hike with muddy feet, drops all the gear on the floor, and splays their filth all over the rooms you've just cleaned and tidied!)

Just let them know that usually, it's a thankless job. Only the lucky few even get into print, let alone make decent sales. They need to go elsewhere for money and prestige. Most people think it's a matter of just applying butt to chair and typing, but it's more than that (though that is step one.) Most people apparently believe that if you "can't get published," then you must be an illiterate prone to misspellings and comma splices, and that you don't have anything interesting to say. This is my pet peeve, as when people find out that I write, they immediately dig for "WHY HAVEN'T I HEARD OF YOU" and jump to "OH, YOU'RE JUST ONE OF THOSE STUPID ILLITERATES WHO CAN'T SPELL." That's why it's best not to let anyone know that you write, unless you LIKE being mocked and picked on.

If you tell them this . . . then the posers will fall away. The only ones left (albeit crushed-looking and pathetic) will be the ones who "have it." Not that this will get them anywhere, but at least they're not posers.

Re: Just be honest with them!

[lagilman]

As I said above, I do know what to tell them, I'm just flummoxed at the fact that they ASK such an impossible question.

Re: Just be honest with them!

[mtlawson.livejournal.com]

Great post, but I also wanted to mention that I love that icon. I could use that at work from time to time.

[maryrobinette.livejournal.com]

I get that in puppetry, where it's a no easier to answer. At least there are tangible jobs that one can do with puppetry. With writing it's much more of a crapshoot. No birthday parties as an income for writers.

Also, I'm impressed with myself since I pulled that tone off in email. Yay! I must be a successful writer.

[lagilman]

we're all scared of you. *nods*

[(Anonymous)]

I think part of the problem is that everyone learns to write (to some degree) in school and believes that's all there is to it. They can write a letter, they can write an e-mail, why can't they write a book? Whereas they have a better sense of knowing they don't have incredible artistic or acting talent, say.

What I don't get is why writing is the art form that becomes "big" so quickly. I know a lot of people who take art classes, maybe show their art in local shows or sell their products on etsy, but don't have any thought of going large with it. Ditto acting--why are so many people entirely content with community theatre and don't go for the big time, as compared to someone who wants to write immediately looking at major publication?

Cheers, Dayle